Layers not saved in plain svg format

Bug #444194 reported by Imagineer on 2009-10-06
6
This bug affects 1 person
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Inkscape
Low
Jon A. Cruz

Bug Description

Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer - Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8

su_v (suv-lp) wrote :

That's not a bug, that's a feature ;-) Inkscape FAQ: What, then, is "Inkscape SVG" as opposed to "Plain SVG" when saving a document?
<http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#What.2C_then.2C_is_.22Inkscape_SVG.22_as_opposed_to_.22Plain_SVG.22_when_saving_a_document.3F>:

layers are nothing else but groups with special attributes when saved as 'Inkscape SVG':

  <g
     inkscape:label="Layer 1"
     inkscape:groupmode="layer"
     id="layer1">
    <rect
       style="fill:#0000ff;fill-opacity:1"
       id="rect2858"
       width="400"
       height="117.14286"
       x="205.71428"
       y="349.50504" />
  </g>

these special attributes are stripped when saved as 'Plain SVG':

  <g
     id="layer1">
    <rect
       width="400"
       height="117.14286"
       x="205.71428"
       y="349.50504"
       id="rect2858"
       style="fill:#0000ff;fill-opacity:1" />
  </g>

the layers as group still exist in 'Plain SVG' but can't be re-edited in Inkscape as layers.
(see also <http://en.flossmanuals.net/Inkscape/WorkingwithFiles>)

If I misunderstood your report - please attach one of your files as example and describe in detail how you saved it and what is missing.

tags: added: saving svg

> "the layers as group still exist in 'Plain SVG' but can't be re-
> edited in Inkscape as layers."

Maybe the layers still exist as groups somewhere but they're gone from
the layers panel.
It's very difficult to work on even mildly complex files without layers.
Effectively I mean this "bug" renders this format useless for further
serious work (for me at least).
In other words, serious work can only really be done in the Inkscape
SVG format.
This doesn't strike me as a good idea.
In FH you can change eps's to FH files and vice versa, In Illie pdf to
ai and vice versa, it doesn't seem logical to me that an Inkscape file
can't retain its usefulness after conversion from Inkscape SVG to
Plain SVG.

On 6/10/2009, at 4:53 PM, ~suv wrote:

> That's not a bug, that's a feature ;-) Inkscape FAQ: What, then, is
> "Inkscape SVG" as opposed to "Plain SVG" when saving a document?
> <http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#What.2C_then.2C_is_.22Inkscape_SVG.22_as_opposed_to_.22Plain_SVG.22_when_saving_a_document.3F
> >:
>
> layers are nothing else but groups with special attributes when
> saved as
> 'Inkscape SVG':
>
> <g
> inkscape:label="Layer 1"
> inkscape:groupmode="layer"
> id="layer1">
> <rect
> style="fill:#0000ff;fill-opacity:1"
> id="rect2858"
> width="400"
> height="117.14286"
> x="205.71428"
> y="349.50504" />
> </g>
>
> these special attributes are stripped when saved as 'Plain SVG':
>
> <g
> id="layer1">
> <rect
> width="400"
> height="117.14286"
> x="205.71428"
> y="349.50504"
> id="rect2858"
> style="fill:#0000ff;fill-opacity:1" />
> </g>
>
> the layers as group still exist in 'Plain SVG' but can't be re-
> edited in Inkscape as layers.
> (see also <http://en.flossmanuals.net/Inkscape/WorkingwithFiles>)
>
> If I misunderstood your report - please attach one of your files as
> example and describe in detail how you saved it and what is missing.
>
> ** Tags added: saving svg
>
> --
> Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
> Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444194
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in Inkscape: A Vector Drawing Tool: New
>
> Bug description:
> Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
> Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8

Imagineer (imagineering) wrote :

I consider that a bug.

On 6/10/2009, at 5:42 PM, Imagineer wrote:

>> "the layers as group still exist in 'Plain SVG' but can't be re-
>> edited in Inkscape as layers."
>
> Maybe the layers still exist as groups somewhere but they're gone from
> the layers panel.
> It's very difficult to work on even mildly complex files without
> layers.
> Effectively I mean this "bug" renders this format useless for further
> serious work (for me at least).
> In other words, serious work can only really be done in the Inkscape
> SVG format.
> This doesn't strike me as a good idea.
> In FH you can change eps's to FH files and vice versa, In Illie pdf to
> ai and vice versa, it doesn't seem logical to me that an Inkscape file
> can't retain its usefulness after conversion from Inkscape SVG to
> Plain SVG.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/10/2009, at 4:53 PM, ~suv wrote:
>
>> That's not a bug, that's a feature ;-) Inkscape FAQ: What, then, is
>> "Inkscape SVG" as opposed to "Plain SVG" when saving a document?
>> <http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#What.2C_then.2C_is_.22Inkscape_SVG.22_as_opposed_to_.22Plain_SVG.22_when_saving_a_document.3F
>>> :
>>
>> layers are nothing else but groups with special attributes when
>> saved as
>> 'Inkscape SVG':
>>
>> <g
>> inkscape:label="Layer 1"
>> inkscape:groupmode="layer"
>> id="layer1">
>> <rect
>> style="fill:#0000ff;fill-opacity:1"
>> id="rect2858"
>> width="400"
>> height="117.14286"
>> x="205.71428"
>> y="349.50504" />
>> </g>
>>
>> these special attributes are stripped when saved as 'Plain SVG':
>>
>> <g
>> id="layer1">
>> <rect
>> width="400"
>> height="117.14286"
>> x="205.71428"
>> y="349.50504"
>> id="rect2858"
>> style="fill:#0000ff;fill-opacity:1" />
>> </g>
>>
>> the layers as group still exist in 'Plain SVG' but can't be re-
>> edited in Inkscape as layers.
>> (see also <http://en.flossmanuals.net/Inkscape/WorkingwithFiles>)
>>
>> If I misunderstood your report - please attach one of your files as
>> example and describe in detail how you saved it and what is missing.
>>
>> ** Tags added: saving svg
>>
>> --
>> Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
>> Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444194
>> You received this bug notification because you are a direct
>> subscriber
>> of the bug.
>>
>> Status in Inkscape: A Vector Drawing Tool: New
>>
>> Bug description:
>> Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
>> Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8
>
>
> ** Attachment added: "Inkscape SVG.jpg"
> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33097425/Inkscape%20SVG.jpg
>
> ** Attachment added: "Plain SVG.jpg"
> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33097426/Plain%20SVG.jpg
>
> --
> Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
> Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444194
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in Inkscape: A Vector Drawing Tool: New
>
> Bug description:
> Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
> Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8

Imagineer,

Terrible example. With Illustrator, it's native format is PDF based (just like Inkscape is SVG based). In AI, when you save as PDF, there is a checkbox in the save dialog to retain the AI editing capabilities. When you do this, it is the equivalent of saving as an Inkscape SVG. If you do not retain those capabilities it would be saving as a "plain PDF" and definitely can't be edited as easily/nicely when pulled back in. Also, just like AI, when you retain those editing abilities it adds to the filesize.

So, why is saving as Inkscape SVG a bad thing? Also, when you use AI do you not just use the default format?

su_v (suv-lp) on 2009-10-06
summary: - Layers not saved in plain svg format -drawings not in any layer -
- Inkscape 0.47 iMac 10.5.8
+ Layers not saved in plain svg format
su_v (suv-lp) wrote :

Maybe the issue relates to the discussion 'Save' vs 'Export' - i.e. 'Plain SVG' as ("lossy") export format?

related blueprint: <https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/inkscape/+spec/save-as-vs-export>
blueprint specification: <http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Save_as_vs_export>

ScislaC (scislac) wrote :

~suv,

I agree... I think that the way that the GIMP is moving to handle files is a model that we should follow.

su_v (suv-lp) wrote :

@Scislac - this one?

GIMP UI Redesign - save + export specification:
<http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Save_%2B_export_specification>

«This specification defines a clear separation between saving and export, based on version 2.6. (…) The basic strategy that follows from the points above is: GIMP opens and saves GIMP files and imports/exports the rest.»

Pablo Trabajos (pajarico) wrote :

I agree with ScislaC and suv.

> Effectively I mean this "bug" renders this format useless for further serious work (for me at least).
And in fact, in many circumstances, it does. The matter is that plain SVG doesn't support many of the edition capabilities that Inkscape offers, so this format is considered "lossy" (it loses editing parameters such as layers, and then a ton more) and should be only used for exporting or when you're positive that using it won't cause any harm.

> In other words, serious work can only really be done in the Inkscape SVG format. This doesn't strike me as a good idea.
And that's the way you've to work. Inkscape is not particular case. As gimp uses XCF, or Illustrator uses AI (or PDF with editing capabilities), or Indesign uses INDD... all native file formats, the only way to grant that all of the editing features are preserved. Now, all of the mentioned software have ways to export to PDF, JPEG, PNG, etc. but those formats can't store all the information needed for a later edition.

Personally, I see no bug. Standard (plain) SVG doesn't support many of Inkscape's features so is just technically impossible for the app to store them in that format. However, an effort to disambiguate export and save should be done in the direction gimp has taken.

Regards.

ScislaC (scislac) wrote :

@~suv,

Yep, that is it.

Jon A. Cruz (jon-joncruz) wrote :

The purpose of "plain" is for stripped down, non-editable, minimal SVG that's easier to publish.

Changed in inkscape:
assignee: nobody → Jon A. Cruz (jon-joncruz)
importance: Undecided → Low
status: New → Won't Fix
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