Computer Science Ubuntu

Microsoft has a majority market share

Reported by Mark Shuttleworth on 2004-08-20
This bug affects 2226 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Clubdistro
Critical
Unassigned
Computer Science Ubuntu
Critical
Computer Science Ubuntu Bugs
EasyPeasy Overview
Critical
Jon Ramvi
Ichthux
Critical
Raphaël Pinson
JAK LINUX
Critical
Unassigned
LibreOffice Productivity Suite
New
Undecided
Unassigned
Linux
New
Undecided
Unassigned
Linux Mint
Undecided
Unassigned
Neobot
Undecided
Unassigned
Novabot
Undecided
Unassigned
OpenOffice
In Progress
Undecided
maviya
Tabuntu
Critical
Tina Russell
The Linux OS Project
Critical
Unassigned
Tivion
Critical
Angel Guzman Maeso
Tv-Player
Undecided
Unassigned
Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team
Critical
MFauzilkamil Zainuddin
dylan.NET
Undecided
Unassigned
dylan.NET.Reflection
Undecided
Unassigned
Arch Linux
Confirmed
Undecided
Unassigned
Baltix
High
Unassigned
Fedora
Confirmed
Undecided
Unassigned
Fluxbuntu
Confirmed
Undecided
Unassigned
Tilix
High
Unassigned
Ubuntu
Critical
Mark Shuttleworth
Declined for Edgy by Colin Watson
Declined for Feisty by Colin Watson
Declined for Gutsy by Colin Watson
Declined for Hardy by Colin Watson
Declined for Intrepid by Michael Casadevall
Declined for Karmic by Nathan Handler
Declined for Lucid by Luke Faraone
Declined for Maverick by Robbie Williamson
Declined for Natty by Pete Graner
linux (Debian)
In Progress
Undecided
Unassigned
openSUSE
In Progress
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
------

Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all."

"Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world."
     * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy

Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices.

This bug is widely evident in the PC industry.

Steps to repeat:

    1. Visit a local PC store.
    2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software.

What happens:

Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre-installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary.

What should happen:

A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software.

     * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
     * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
     * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd

Sivan Greenberg (sivan) on 2004-12-21
description: updated

I am in 97% agree with us but, let's be fair and tell all that:
1. All the PC's for sale shoud be clean and, when I go to buy it, to decide what I want to have and the store to install it for me.
2. Ubuntu shoud be marketed in his way (the amazing way). It's an serious OS user-friendly, but, like all in his gang (well almost all distros) not idiot-friendly.
3. Totally agree with just one adnotation: The user itself must be upgrade it. :-)))

Here, in Romania, only the big magazines are selling the PC'es with windoze preinstaled, the little ones are selling their systems with Linux (various distros) but installed in a manner that makes the computer useless. :-))

Easily reproduceable in Southern California. I recently visited 3 different computer stores and could not find a single system running a free and open operating system. At one location, when I attempted to boot an Ubuntu LiveCD, I was asked to leave the premises! Shocking...I think the severity level very well could be raised on this one.

Cyphase (cyphase) wrote :

I was able to reproduce this problem in an average of 85% of the cases. Seeing as this flaw concerns over ~85% of the worlds computer users, I think it should be given the highest severity rating.

Changed in ubuntu:
status: New → Accepted
magilla (admin-seport) wrote :

This bug is extremely prevelant in Australia We may need aid packages!

My status: Currently working on bugfix

Fredric Solstad (ohdung) wrote :

This bug is dangerously widespread in Sweden as well.

My current status: Working on bugfix

seb-open2 (seb-open2) wrote :

In Belgium the bug is extremely widespread, so much that people don't see it as a bug anymore and accept it as a fact of life... Must fix...

Jarek Zgoda (jzgoda) wrote :

In Poland this bug is not as significant as elsewhere, as most of ready-made computers are sold with FreeDOS or some flavour of Linux (Aurox and Mandriva predominantly). The only exception are the laptops, where only HP and Acer sell notebooks without Microsoft software preinstalled.
Maybe this is because in Poland we aren't as rich as people in other countries?

Lam (lam-lac) wrote :

I strongly disagree with Jarek. Of course, Poles are poor. It's true we buy computers with DOS (but rather DR-DOS to make it more "legal") or even Linux, but let's face the facts - the first thing people do on their new computers is installing pirated Windows copies. So the bug is even more significant, only not so obviously seen in PC stores. More significant because elsewhere (in more "civilised" countries) people can afford to buy Windows, only we know they pay money which then is used to stop innovation in software (among other evil things), but in Poland people are not only making market for Windows (use illegaly at home, then make your boss buy it at the office, because Windows is what you want to work on), but also stealing software (which is not right even if for some reasons we don't like the software or company in question). In case of Windows, Microsoft is silently agreeing to steal it (due to reasons mentioned earlier), but it creates the wrong assumption in users' minds (that it's OK to steal software at home, because we can't afford it). What people doesn't _realize_ is the fact that all of their computer work can be done with free software. I'm not talking about proffessionals using some bizzarre advanced tools. I'm talking about people using computers to browse web, send e-mail, talk to friends and print few pages a day at work. So this is the bugfix - end user education. Working on it :)

Alexandre Otto Strube (surak) wrote :

Here in Brazil there is a manufacturer which is starting to distribute a custom Ubuntu as its default operating system option!

Zeus (zeussama) wrote :

Here in Indonesia the bug is very serious widespreaded. We trying hard to fix the bug.

Couple months ago, Microsoft Indonesia sweeped all internet cafe that using illegal copy of Windows, after that moment most of internet cafe using Linux as it's operating system. It's a good start to introducing Linux to Indonesian.

Now, most of Computers store installed Linux in newly build computers (including laptop).

abdulmueid (abdul-mueid) wrote :

In Mozambique, Africa computers are not so widespread, let alone Windows or Ubuntu. All the computer shops that I know have Windows pre-installed on it (mostly pirated). Linux is only known to ISP's and companies that need a fileserver.
The bug hasnt got a stronghold here yet since there aren't as many computers. A little help from outside might just stop the bug before it can infest everywhere.

Sekt fault (the-pulse) wrote :

I think this bug has been introduced by a design mistake concerning the function create_software_industry(). It should have a variable parameter list rather than a sole pcompany attribute.

Lloyd Hardy (11811) wrote :

Until someone starts talking to Microsoft users, Ubuntu will never be in the high street.

Talk to hosting companies and it'll be in hosting companies. *Newsflash: The general public don't use hosting companies*

If we do not market to a wider audience, market opinion will never swing in our favour. The most you can get is what you ask for - you will never be given nore.

If you actually want to do something instead of sittng around and complaining, get the debate: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=73132

Lloyd Hardy (11811) wrote :

Scrub that - join the marketing team:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam

João Pio (joao-pio) wrote :

This bug is especially evident in Portugal. Most computer stores are barely aware anything not related to windows.
Most large computer store atendants will look strangelly if you ask them anything about linux. That or they will say that store does not support Linux at all.

Don't fool yourselves.
Most Computer stores in my country sell counterfit copies of windows, and even tho most stores make you pay for fake goods no one cares about that, not even microsoft. Babies grow up spoon fed by windows and they will one day be spoon fed windows adults.

If at all possible this bug could have to do with the inability, or disconfort in most peoples mind that seems to tell them that Microsoft windows works and Linux might not.

There should be a Forum in which people would put their success stories about what they installed and how. What is supported and what isn't. This is missing in practicly all distros I've seen.
We in the linux world must make sure people can find out if their computer works in Ubuntu.
Marketing needs to be planned. If you market your solution just because you have it, then if you fail your image is burnt.

Theo (launchpad-flame) wrote :

My little girl is six years old and spends hours on the computer playing educational games. Unfortunately the games she is interested in are only available on Microsoft - so as long as the suppliers of such software do not have the motivation to supply for the linux market the bug will perpetuate. That said, my little boy will be getting a motherboard, chassis, power supply, hard disk, cd/dvd drive and a linux cd when he turns six :-)

Boris de Laage (bbloup) wrote :

I can reproduce it too, in France, in either small shops & big supermarkets.

I'm working on a bugfix for several years, with many, many people.

Maybe this one will take some time to hunt. But I feel we're on the way.

Shane Volpe (shanevolpe) wrote :

I was able to repeat this bug in rural western Pennsylvania (USA) as well. Furthermore we have public schools that have not one open-source program installed on their computers!

I know there are open source projects out there for schools but is there an open source how-to or step-by-step program for integrating open source programs into a public school system?
Its great to have the software but we need a way to educate the educators on how to implement and use the software!

We should also have a how-to attack plan: This would cover how someone (like me, an open source advocate) approaches a local school about using open source.

Adam A. (musicman2059) wrote :

There's only one thing I have to say about this bug:

"lol"

I was able to reproduce in the UK. In fact, in one instance, I couldn't even get a PC with a blank HDD, nevermind with Linux on!

There is a big chance for the asian market to squash this bug. We can actally buy HP and IBM laptops with no Operating systems. Linux is currently making the news (along with Ubuntu) and UNDP-APDIP initiatives like the IOSN are helping to fix this bug.

PDT (venpandita) wrote :

I am able to reprodce it in Burma --- a South-East Asia country known for its main opposition leader and Nobel laureate, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.

Our country has refused to sign the international copyright and patent laws up to now. So it is perfectly legal to use pirated software!(Mostly MS Windows and related products) Even MS, with its enormous legal team, cannot sue us!

There is almost no software industry here. PC clones are assembled and sold with pirated Windows, and any popular software you name, pre-installed by hardware vendors, who also undertake the responsibility of Windows help desk. All other software maintenance is done by users themseves by using manuals (pirated copies again!) and learning from private software courses.

However, things must change sooner or later. At the time when the International IP laws come into effective here, all computers in Burma would grind to a halt since very few would be able to afford license fees.

Who would help us to boot our computers at that time? Ubuntu, I hope.

B Gates (udo-hoerhold) wrote :

As far as I am concerned, this behavior works as expected. It should be marked as a feature, not a bug.

Jonathan Carter (jonathan) wrote :

If Steve Balmer can vow to kill Google, then I'm equally entitled to kill Microsoft. I will commit whatever free time I have to improve Ubuntu, and I won't rest until this bug is resolved.

Linoman (linoman) wrote :

I must ask a question, this bug that faces not only Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc but Linux in general what is it really caused by?

1) Is it caused by unfair practices by certian large businesses?
2) Is it caused by customers that do not know more about Linux?

We all know I guess that its caused by a combination of both. If Linux is to expand rapidly to the desktop user then more education is needed for the public. I live in South Africa (Western Cape) and here 99% of PC shops either just don't support Linux or for some reason have not heard of it.

Come on, lets educate people who do not know the joys of Linux and especially Ubuntu

I see this bug time to time. I am not talking about the average joe who doesn't even know what an OS is. But, I am talking about Computer Scientists. Yes, you heard me right. Fellow students in my Computer Science degree, are as addicted to Windows as Hippies were addicted to "LOVE" in the 60s ;-) . Our university(University of Southampton, UK), has invested a lot of time, money and effort into providing us with a room full of Linux PCs with latest hardware. Yet, we see students flocking to M$ Windows PCs.

Bug Fixes:

   1. User awareness/education - I am working on it. So far managed to convert my brother and four of my friends. Though, few revert to M$ often, due to hardware incompatibilities, with time these issues can be resolved.
   2. Advocate the fact the UBUNTU is free - Yes, your PC would be a lot cheaper if it wasn't for all the pre-installed software. May be with the saving you can afford better peripherals or even a high spec PC. As abdulmueid commented above[in bug#1's comments page], the use of Linux based computers is the only way for computers to become widely available in developing countries. Mmmm will they still be called developing countries then...
   3. Advertise in YELLOW Pages/Directory Listings for free Ubuntu consultations - LUGs are a good idea. But people are hesitant while venturing into the unknown(to them that is). So may be the LUGs can advertise, offering help in local news papers, TVs etc.
   4. Awareness initiatives - Government should allocate funds to create awareness among people. National Televisions should telecast programmes during prime time-slots, to advise people about the open source software. I think, people wouldn't want to break the law when there is a legal and free alternative. Why pirate MS Office when you can use Open Office? Why get all the spam, spy ware, virus?

Well, all this is my objectives for the future. I am just waiting for my chance. Until then I am just preparing myself and doing whatever I can to help.

"Small drops make the mighty ocean"

So do your bit to help....

-- Saru

MauricioHernandez (mhz) wrote :

In 2 opportunities I have visited the Technology Section of 3 big department stores in Chile (Falabella, Almacenes Paris and Ripley). I have requested to buy even the most powerful and expensive computer they have (either desktop or laptop) but with NO operating system.

After some minutes, the very motivated sales persons come back with sad face to inform me that their supervisors have not allowed the procedure because OS is already installed.

Incredible!

I suggest we organize the Ubuntu Request Day. What's that? Let's ask each ubuntu fan to go to a store one day (same for all over the world) and ask to buy a computer with Ubuntu (Kubuntu, Edubuntu, or maybe Debian installed).

Obviously, if by any case, the store agrees... we may have some excuses already planned :)

Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) wrote :

We could ask vendors about machines without windows pre-installed
I have seen in my contry (Romania) that almost all laptops (90%)
are with windows home/pro already on them .
There are some vendors that give you choice :Acer and Siemens sell some models
with linux.

One intersting article related to this bug
"Early results of the (Dutch) Windows refund survey"
"Sometimes as a Linux user, you wish you could buy any computer with Linux preinstalled, or if that's not possible, just without an operating system, but that's not the reality. If that isn't possible, is it possible to buy any computer with Windows pre-installed, and then, return the unused Windows, and ask a refund for it? That's a question many non-Windows users ask themselves. The answer however, isn't clear to consumers. There's only one way to find out: ask your hardware manufacturer. Or do they neither know the answer? Time to find out."

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/49036/index.html

Nal (nalshdat) wrote :

Ok I found a major part of this bug. I finaly confinced a friend to go to linux, in the form of ubuntu. He LOVED it. Couldn't stop talking about the speed and ease of use and all that. Then it happened. We went to install a game. When it didn't work he looked at me and asked how do I get my games working. I then told him for most games you can use Cedega or wine, but some don't work at all yet, you also need no cd cracks for some also. At the point he looked at me and said, wait you mean I have to buy a program to get most my games working..then some wont work..and some that do I have to use a no cd crack....Just install windows. I would rather have all my games working. So there you have it. We fix this gameing prob and we can get more users. Most that I see switch right back when they find out about games and linux. They dont want to have to install new stuf then hope their game is supported. If we can some how make it work out the box on all games like windows we will be set.

Jason Woyak (woyakj) wrote :

I completely agree with Nal's comment about games, with one slight change. I don't think the problem is getting games to work in Linux. I think the REAL problem is getting game designers to make a Linux version of their games (shipped on the SAME CD..) Why not? Just have 3 folders: DATA (for the game data files, Windows (for the windows runtimes) and Linux (for the Linux runtimes). That way save files from the games would transer easily, MORE people would buy the games (think of how much community support whichever company was the first to implement and advertise this would get!), and people that don't know any better could still just put in the CD and hit Install. Obviously there are A LOT of details to work out here, but I think that if Mark Shuttleworth wants to advance opensource, he should try kicking a large amount of money toward the first company like EA or Activision that would be willing to have static-compiled linux binaries of their games included on the CD. Even ONE of their popular games to start out. That game would sell MANY more copies that it otherwise would, and if it was implemented in such a way that followed software standards, EVERYONE would win (the game company who would sell more games and get LOTS of great PR on sites like Slashdot, the End User who would really get a fair choice of desktop os AND get to play the hot new game title, and the OSS community who would get a HUGE amount of exposure to people who would otherwise not be as interested). How about World of Warcraft?! My $0.02

Bandit (bandit) wrote :

This must be the biggest bug of all. I have been to many contries through out the world and have been to almost every major city in the USA. This is defently a confirmed bug.
M$ has plagued the entire world like a out of control virus spreading there software on the un-knowing. Their evil business practices have brought them market dominance and thus this bug must be eleminated.
I vote this bug must have the highest priority and I will also continue to assist in eleminating virus as well.

Jim McCormick (rantman-2000) wrote :

Present on my university campus, too. While a lot of the backend uses Mac OS X, most of the student-accessable computers are running some form of MS operating system. One lab offers an older version of Gentoo as an option, but it's the only place where I can use a free system on campus other than my dorm room. Furthermore, due to drastic price cuts (the school has a contract with Microsoft to allow their students onto the local "site license" for 10x the cost of media), there's little incentive for things to change.

I have been recommending free software to anyone who comes to me looking for computer help, and have even distributed LiveCDs of Ubuntu to anyone who comes to me for technical support in an effort to get people to consider leaving Windows.

dwerf (douwe) wrote :

Yep, in the Netherlands this is a major bug. The vast majority of system deals include the SMODNIM-system (get it? It's Window's newest nickname).

I'm amazed at how hard to kill this bug is. Most nonbelievers are totally focussed on the disadvantages of Linux, but I made my dad swap to Linux and I'm talking many unhappy SMODNIM-users into letting me install that system that is so good "and this is for free?"

People really liked Firefox and Thunderbird and really feel the difference and the vibe the open source community can give. SMODNIM should be very afraid, because people are switching!

Tom Oldani (txo8933) wrote :

Indeed, games are strongly affected by this bug. I would like to add a few suggestions. First off, go to garagegames.com, and buy some of the linux games. The games there are all very high quality despite being low-budget. Second, if you're a game developer, consider using a multi-platform OpenGL engine for your game, as opposed to DirectX. Third, if you're a linux developer, find a way to distribute programs in such a way as to not require a separate binary for every distro/processor combo out there! These files should be easy to use and install, and should not necessitate compiling. Some people might not want to release their source.

This generalised bug is persistent. Microsoft trains its salesforce to learn about GNU/Linux and use arguments against it.
As of the tasks to overcome the current situation I dare to propose:
1. make GNU/Linux and between them Ubuntu distributions be known using a ear-to-ear strategy
2. make Ubuntu distributions easy to configure and to update, for breaking the myth GNU/Linux requires technical or plenty-of-free-time users
3. ensure as many language tranlations as possible, giving the opportunity to feel confident by using an own language version to more people
4. make Ubuntu become widespread so that people know there is the possibility to choose - usually many do not even know that free sotware exists
5. focus on more "convertable" users:
5.1. business are not likely to switch easily but administrations or educational institutes might;
5.2. the younger seem to be more attracted than the elder; 5.3. emerging and poorer countries have more potential of growth if distributions are suitable to the hardware and telecoms options

And probably more, but we should focus on those at least.
In order to start, each of us can contribute to the distribution evolution, install at our homes, worksplaces if allowed and firends computers. This cold be the best advertisment campaign.

Uwe Beutin (scrambler) wrote :

In German schools it is becoming nightmarish... kids are actually taking so-called Computer Classes and the first courses they can get their hands on is M$ Excel and Word because that is, they learn, what a Computer is All About! It seems as we are rather losing the knowledge of what a computer actually is; for our kids do not ever grasp the fact that what they are learning is bullsh.. and has nothing to do with computers. So I believe this bug is even more serious than we might have imagined...

Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas) wrote :

Bug #29194 has Lithuanian translation of this bug, but bug #29194 is targeted to Baltic states (Lithuania and Latvia).
Also there is an issue with standards and document formats - government institutions and public sector shouldn't force users to use closed formats and non-free software, but currently lots of info in government institution web pages are only in closed document formats, like Microsoft Office (.doc or .xls).

Mark Shuttleworth worte:
"Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally."

Uh, so is Rosetta, Malone, and the whole launchpad is holding back innovation too? ;-)

nelwa (adriaan-nellen) wrote :

There are many reasons that causes MS to dominate the software market. In my opinion the following issues must be addressed by the Open Source community before they can even consider to appeal to the masses.
<ol><li>User Friendliness - When have you ever had to execute a command in terminal to do something in Windows....commands are for geeks - write a visual app for everything</li><li>Third party software support - This will naturally follow after (1.) is implemented - but think of all the apps that gets used in a business environment that has no linux support - Adobe, Macromedia, etc</li><li>Games + Entertainment - Everyone who's ever got a new cellphone should have realised before that things don't really sell on their usefull features, but more on their entertainment related features</li></ol>Implement these things into Ubuntu, and it will appeal to the masses!

nelwa (adriaan-nellen) wrote :

here follows my post again without html tags:

There are many reasons that causes MS to dominate the software market. In my opinion the following issues must be addressed by the Open Source community before they can even consider to appeal to the masses.

1. User Friendliness - When have you ever had to execute a command in terminal to do something in Windows....commands are for geeks - write a visual app for everything

2. Third party software support - This will naturally follow after (1.) is implemented - but think of all the apps that gets used in a business environment that has no linux support - Adobe, Macromedia, etc

3. Games + Entertainment - Everyone who's ever got a new cellphone should have realised before that things don't really sell on their usefull features, but more on their entertainment related features.

In conclusion: Implement these things into Ubuntu, and it will appeal to the masses!

Changed in sysvinit:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Matthew Strait (quadong) on 2006-05-24
description: updated
description: updated
raul (jahyire2006) on 2006-07-19
Changed in ubuntu-express:
assignee: nobody → jahyire2006
Changed in ichthux:
assignee: nobody → raphink
importance: Untriaged → Critical
status: Unconfirmed → Confirmed
Changed in upstart:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Changed in ubuntu-meta:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
sopsys (sopsys) on 2006-11-24
Changed in bum:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2006-11-26
description: updated
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2006-11-26
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in bum:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
pirast (pirast) on 2006-11-26
description: updated
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in bum:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in ichthux:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
description: updated
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2006-11-27
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in bum:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
description: updated
description: updated
Munchkinguy (10068660) on 2007-01-01
Changed in ichthux:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in rosetta:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
1337 (neorser) on 2007-02-12
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
Conrad Knauer (atheoi) on 2007-02-13
description: updated
Changed in rosetta:
status: Rejected → Needs Info
status: Needs Info → Unconfirmed
Changed in rosetta:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Alex M. Lowe (lengau) on 2007-03-25
Changed in firefox:
status: Unconfirmed → Fix Committed
Changed in openoffice:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Changed in firefox:
status: Fix Committed → Rejected
Changed in jl:
assignee: nobody → juliank
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: Unconfirmed → Confirmed
Adrien Cunin (adri2000) on 2007-07-03
Changed in djplay:
status: New → Invalid
Changed in casper:
status: New → Invalid
D. Brodzik (amyrose) on 2007-10-03
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
description: updated
Changed in tabuntu:
assignee: nobody → tinarussell
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in compscibuntu:
assignee: nobody → ozanichkovsky
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
assignee: ozanichkovsky → compscibuntu
assignee: compscibuntu → compscibuntu-bugs
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2008-02-11
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in jl:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in tabuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in openoffice:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
description: updated
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Conrad Knauer (atheoi) on 2008-02-11
Changed in ichthux:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in jl:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in tabuntu:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Conrad Knauer (atheoi) on 2008-02-11
description: updated
Changed in rosetta:
status: Invalid → New
Changed in rosetta:
status: New → Invalid
Changed in linux:
status: New → Invalid
Changed in jl:
assignee: juliank → nobody
Changed in linux:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in clubuntu:
assignee: nobody → clubuntu
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
Bernhard (b.a.koenig) on 2008-08-16
Changed in openoffice:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Bernhard (b.a.koenig) on 2008-08-17
Changed in linux:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in kde-systemsettings:
status: New → Invalid
Sart (sart-ua) on 2008-10-16
Changed in linux:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
coreymon77 (coreymon77) on 2008-10-28
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Steve Langasek (vorlon) on 2009-02-20
Changed in bum:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in casper:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in djplay:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in firefox:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
manzur (sl-solaris) on 2009-02-28
description: updated
description: updated
Changed in clubdistro:
assignee: clubuntu → nobody
Raphael Michel (rami) on 2009-04-17
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
maviya (lh-maviya) on 2009-04-18
Changed in openoffice:
assignee: nobody → lh-maviya
Montel Edwards (montel) on 2009-06-18
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
assignee: raul (jahyire2006) → Montel Edwards (m.deonte)
status: Won't Fix → Confirmed
Philip Morrell (emorrp1) on 2009-07-15
Changed in linuxmint:
importance: Undecided → Low
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in linuxmint:
importance: Low → High
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: Confirmed → In Progress
security vulnerability: no → yes
security vulnerability: yes → no
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Invalid
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu):
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in ubuntu:
assignee: nobody → Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
status: Confirmed → In Progress
Jon Ramvi (ramvi) on 2009-11-04
description: updated
Jon Ramvi (ramvi) on 2009-11-04
description: updated
Changed in easypeasy-project:
assignee: nobody → Jon Ramvi (ramvi)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
Changed in tivion:
assignee: nobody → Angel Guzman Maeso (shakaran)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
tags: added: iso-testing
Changed in clubdistro:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in jl:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in openoffice:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in tabuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Jon Ramvi (ramvi) on 2009-12-15
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Daniel Case (monotoko) on 2010-02-01
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: In Progress → Invalid
r12056 (r12056) on 2010-02-08
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in tivion:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Linux000 (michael-yoyo) on 2010-03-11
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Incomplete
Daniel Case (monotoko) on 2010-04-14
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
assignee: Montel Edwards (montel) → Monotoko (danielcase10)
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Incomplete → In Progress
Changed in baltix:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in linuxos:
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in opensuse:
status: New → In Progress
Jerry Masslo II (jegi) on 2010-05-29
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Fix Released
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Fix Released → In Progress
Amaeth (dfoxpro) on 2010-06-10
Changed in linux (Debian):
status: Confirmed → In Progress
Didier Roche (didrocks) on 2010-06-30
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
summary: + "Microsoft has a majority market share"
summary: - "Microsoft has a majority market share"
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: In Progress → Invalid
Sidnei da Silva (sidnei) on 2010-07-12
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
summary: + Microsoft has a majority market share
Lance4 (gero3977) on 2010-07-26
Changed in clubdistro:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
NoaHall (noah-co-uk) on 2010-08-29
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in gnome-screensaver:
status: Unknown → Won't Fix
Changed in gnome-screensaver:
importance: Unknown → Low
Changed in metacity:
importance: Unknown → Low
status: Unknown → In Progress
Changed in libreoffice:
assignee: nobody → Björn Michaelsen (bjoern-michaelsen)
status: New → In Progress
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-05-11
Changed in dnr:
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in dylandotnet:
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in dnr:
importance: Undecided → Critical
Pin Stack (pin-stack) on 2011-05-13
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
+ Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
description: updated
Pin Stack (pin-stack) on 2011-05-13
description: updated
summary: - Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
description: updated
description: updated
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-05-19
Changed in dylandotnet:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in dnr:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-05-22
Changed in dylandotnet:
importance: Critical → Undecided
Changed in dnr:
importance: Critical → Undecided
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in dylandotnet:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Jon Loldrup (loldrup) on 2011-05-22
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Invalid
status: Invalid → In Progress
JC Hulce (soaringsky) on 2011-05-28
Changed in ugr-meta:
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
xaav (xaav) on 2011-06-15
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in elementaryos:
assignee: nobody → Elementary-core (elementary-core)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
assignee: Elementary-core (elementary-core) → The elementary Project (elementaryproject)
Changed in elementaryos:
importance: Critical → Low
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-06-23
Changed in dylandotnet:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu):
status: Invalid → In Progress
Allen Lowe (lallenlowe) on 2011-06-28
Changed in elementaryos:
importance: Low → Medium
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-07-09
Changed in dnr:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Ivo Nunes (ivonunes) on 2011-07-16
Changed in gen-os:
assignee: nobody → GenOS Team (gen-os)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
Daniel Fore (danrabbit) on 2011-07-29
Changed in elementaryos:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Vish (vish) on 2011-07-30
affects: elementaryos → null
Changed in null:
assignee: The elementary Project (elementaryproject) → nobody
Albert Pool (albertpool) on 2011-08-03
Changed in linuxmint:
status: New → In Progress
Curtis Hovey (sinzui) on 2011-11-11
no longer affects: null
Brad Figg (brad-figg) on 2011-11-14
tags: removed: iso-testing
tags: added: iso-testing
Vibhav Pant (vibhavp) on 2011-11-27
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Confirmed
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Confirmed → In Progress
tags: removed: iso-testing
tags: added: iso-testing
tags: removed: iso-testing
Changed in gen-os:
assignee: Registry Administrators (registry) → nobody
no longer affects: gnome-screensaver
Curtis Hovey (sinzui) on 2011-12-18
no longer affects: gen-os
Changed in ubuntu-my:
assignee: nobody → MFauzilkamil Zainuddin (apogee)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
JC Hulce (soaringsky) on 2012-03-15
no longer affects: ugr-seeds
Changed in tv-player:
status: New → Invalid
Nivth Ket (nivthk) on 2012-04-10
Changed in elementaryos:
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in archlinux:
status: New → Confirmed
Bruno (brunovam) on 2012-05-05
Changed in linux:
assignee: nobody → Bruno (brunovam)
Daniel Fore (danrabbit) on 2012-05-14
no longer affects: elementaryos
CSRedRat (csredrat) on 2012-08-20
tags: added: canonical microsoft
tags: added: iso-testing
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority desktop market share
no longer affects: ubuntu-express (Ubuntu)
no longer affects: ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty)
no longer affects: Ubuntu Jaunty
Kẏra (kxra) on 2012-10-07
description: updated
summary: - Microsoft has a majority desktop market share
+ Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
Randall Ross (randall) on 2012-11-12
summary: - Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
description: updated
William Grant (wgrant) on 2013-01-03
no longer affects: metacity
tags: added: patch
Bruno (brunovam) on 2013-05-06
Changed in linux:
assignee: Bruno (brunovam) → nobody
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Fix Released
Darth Sidious (zloklun) on 2013-05-30
information type: Public → Public Security
Luke Faraone (lfaraone) on 2013-05-30
no longer affects: Ubuntu Dapper
Martin Albisetti (beuno) on 2013-05-30
information type: Public Security → Public
1804 comments hidden view all 1884 comments
ttoine (ttoine) wrote :

Back when the #1 bug was fixed, PC was almost the only stuff to work and communicate in the digital world. Since, smartphones, tablets and other devices appear. They are computers, and they don't run a Microsoft OS. So, yes, the bug is fixed. And in many countries, brands like Lenovo sells more PC with Ubuntu than with Windows.

So, yes, the bug is fixed. Next step: having Ubuntu or other OS than Windows on PC, in physical stores and shops!!!

IKT (ikt) wrote :

Good news everyone :)

Presianbg (presianbg) wrote :

10x to Win 8 :D

description: updated
Paul White (paulw2u) wrote :

In my view this was never really a bug.

There are dozens of other bugs that need to be fixed to make the Ubuntu family 100% usable and a real alternatives to Windows.

Hi :)
+1
It is already "the year of the linux desktop" except that it's really "the year of the linux portable device" because people are increasingly moving away from desktops.

Regards from

Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: ttoine <email address hidden>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 16:57
>
>Back when the #1 bug was fixed, PC was almost the only stuff to work and
>communicate in the digital world. Since, smartphones, tablets and other
>devices appear. They are computers, and they don't run a Microsoft OS.
>So, yes, the bug is fixed. And in many countries, brands like Lenovo
>sells more PC with Ubuntu than with Windows.
>
>So, yes, the bug is fixed. Next step: having Ubuntu or other OS than
>Windows on PC, in physical stores and shops!!!
>
>
>

Xiaojun Ma (damage3025) wrote :

It's werid that we celebrate the fact that we already failed in the desktop market; consider GNOME's 10x10 goal and the reality.

I'm a FOSS advocate but I feel that the result is well deserved.

What's the point of Windows? It is a DEPENDABLE platform that developers can write software and make profits. Yes, Microsoft ended VB6, VFP9, ..., which annoyed many loyal developers. However, Microsoft continue to support the runtimes even in Windows 8. On the other hand, Linux GUI programs get obsoleted very fast, if it is not continously maintained.

Linux people are always trying to build fancy systems using FOSS while being hostile towards third-parties; third-party software is hard to package and it may work for only a limited time before things break. Default Ubuntu installation includes a productivity suite, LibreOffice. Wow! But as it is generally inferior to Microsoft Office, it is worthless. Every point Windows sucks, there is some software to deal with, most notably the virus issue.

Ubuntu seems to become the reference platform of Linux desktop over years. I find that "Linux = Ubuntu" is a life saver for a non-FOSS-enthusitic third-party developer, it's a good start but too late.

Do we have a well-defined SDK yet? No.
Moving to Qt is a sane decision but a bit too late.
( Microsoft's SDK is called Visual Studio, quite integrated, just slow )

Do we have a package system suitable for end users yet (like Android's system)? No.
I see some work in process, also too late.
( Windows before Windows Store make installation much easier than uninstallation. Though the installation system is abused by many software to include toolbars crap, it is still the way many people familiar with. )

Do we have a well-defined UX yet? Yes and No.
The Unity UX is well-defined, I presume.
But the apps from GNOME is constantly having stupid changes. Don't forget that we don't have a huge pool of third-party software; we cannot ship crappy apps, .e.g, Notepad, like MSFT do.
( Microsoft breaks UI in Windows 8, but they have resource to do that. )

Can people do almost everything with Ubuntu in GUI? Yes and No.
Many GUI program in Linux is simple-minded, when things OK it works. When things go wrong, terminal is the only rescue.
How can one know which repo has certificate error when Update Manager complains?

Do we have good support from OEMs? No.
There are Ubuntu pre-installed on some low-end computer models but OEMs don't put enough resource to back them.
They always recommend Windows.
( You must know who is the real boss of the OEMs. )

I have some personal advices for people have similar feeling.

1. When possible do FOSS in HTML5. HTML5 seems to be the only way to destruct the notion of system requirement WinX/WinY/WinZ.
2. Otherwise, do cross-platform FOSS. It can be hard, but I feel that it is worthwhile to test our software stack by buidling cross-platform application. We may also leave some useful documentation during the process. Cross-platform also ensures a wider user base.
3. Try do things in the "Windows way" and report bugs, if any, to direct upstream.

Charles Profitt (cprofitt) wrote :

I agree with Mark that things have changed...

If we take the term PC to mean personal computing, which is proper, then indeed Microsoft no longer has market dominance.

I also focus on this part of Mark's statement:

"But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product."

I, again, agree... in fact I have had this issue with bug #1 since the beginning of my time using Ubuntu. Microsoft was never 'the problem'; the problem was the lack of a quality alternative. Ubuntu has helped create an environment that has a quality alternative to OS X and Windows. People, more than ever, can make a choice. Sure there are still issues with hardware compatibility, but they are not anywhere near as bad as they once were.

It is time to look forward and pursue expanding the quality of open source applications to give users more and more choices.

Thanks to all of those that worked on the open source bits that went in to making Ubuntu what it is today. May the next 10 years be as fruitful!

Hi :)
I do not think this bug-report should be closed.

There have been some good developments but it's not the end of the story.

I think Ubuntu does have the ability to close this bug but only in collaboration with other projects and that is happening even if it's unofficially.

People often start with Ubuntu as their 1st step into Gnu&Linux and then some of those go on to other projects.  Reactions against the Unity UI has given strength to Cinnamon and Mate perhaps giving each the critical mass they needed to become more viable.  Both became quite strong.  Maybe some merging will happen but even if not there is a lot of discussion and a lot of lessons being learned and great developments in an area that had seemed to be getting quite stuck in following a certain path.  I'm finding a LOT more people are suddenly far more willing to try out Ubuntu BECAUSE OF the Unity interface.

If you think of Ubuntu as a stand-alone project then maybe it wont ever be the one that topples MS's dominance but Ubuntu is NOT ALONE.  It's part of a huge eco-system that are in co-operative competition with each other.

I think a lot of people that left Ubuntu may well return.  It's part of the cycle that many people have gone through since the earliest days of Ubuntu.  The people that join because they like the Unity UI may also step up and become very useful in the future.

So, it's not over at all.  It's not even the beginning of the end.  It's just the beginning of another tumultuous and possibly exciting chapter in the history of Ubuntu.

Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Bradley M. Kuhn <email address hidden>
>
><snip />
>
>[0] "Won't Fix" isn't right because that would presuppose Ubuntu actually
>    had the ability to fix the problem and chose not to.
>
>

PJO (paul-onolan) wrote :

The closure comment reads like something agreed to as part of a deal with Microsoft. Declaring a bug to be fixed and actually fixing it are two different things. Shuttleworth should know this.

Xiaojun Ma (damage3025) wrote :

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Tom <email address hidden> wrote:
> People often start with Ubuntu as their 1st step into Gnu&Linux and then some of those go on to other projects. Reactions against the Unity UI has given strength to Cinnamon and Mate perhaps giving each the critical mass they needed to become more viable. Both became quite strong. Maybe some merging will happen but even if not there is a lot of discussion and a lot of lessons being learned and great developments in an area that had seemed to be getting quite stuck in following a certain path. I'm finding a LOT more people are suddenly far more willing to try out Ubuntu BECAUSE OF the Unity interface.

Who cares the desktop UI?

Most non-Linux people cares about gaming, from my limited
observations. For example, my friends are playing DotA, what should I
do as a Linux user do? I know I can use wine or buy CrossOver. But
none of them can make I feel Linux superior in any sense. Worse if my
GPU doesn't work well (though Warcraft III should be a piece of cake
today) .

Why do people go to other distros where they basically get alternative
desktop UI and arguably better software repository and/or packaging
system? Why bother?

Yes, Ubuntu is more convenient if the user has a *nix mind. But how is
such mind cultivated?

Randall Ross (randall) wrote :

My thoughts:

1) On perseverance: Giving up is not an option. "Can't Fix" admits defeat.

2) On pragmatism: We might need to temporarily accept a binary blob (or
three) or even a proprietary service along the road to Freedomville.
When we do, we've introduced a bug to be fixed later. (It's a bit like
taking shortcuts in programming. Sometimes we do that to get the result
faster, knowing that there's debt to be repaid down the road.)

3) On timeline: Ubuntu will outlive all of us. "Ubuntu is not just
software." When making plans we should consider a planning horizon of at
least 20 years.

4) On history: Just because others have failed to implement a business
model that maintains independence from capital markets, and respects,
spreads and preserves freedom, we should not assume that is the 100%
probable case. History is not always a good predictor of the future and
swans are sometimes black.

Cheers,
Randall.
Ubuntu Evangelists Team.

--
Ubuntu Buzz Generator
/"Ubuntu is not just software."/
Join Ubuntu Vancouver <http://meetup.com/ubuntuvancouver> and see for
yourself.

Hi :)
That is what i thought at first but there was a crucial paragraph in there that said the main aim is now to just increase the quality of the product rather than the main aim being to fix this bug.

Personally i have always seen this as a longer-term "wish-list" or "feature request" rather than something being worked on directly.  Sure some individuals and organisations have deliberately done work on this but i wasn't here early enough to catch any seriously coordinated work across the whole of the project to fix this bug.  The best i've seen was Barry's attachments and game-play.

I thought Ubuntu had always been primarily focused on quality of the product and on developing an open friendly community with this bug being one of the inevitable results of that work.  So, as far as i'm concerned there are no changes in direction.

Maybe things were different before 2008 but i joined then and found the product was far better quality than Windows in all sorts of ways that had really niggled me about Windows.  Sure there were a few things that didn't work perfectly, a few apps where i had to leave long-term favs behind and switch to others (which became new favs) and a few stupid games but now i have more fun getting involved and meeting interesting people all over the world (not afk tho).  I don't have so much time for games but do have much more fun and still enjoy Wesnoth and others when i get time.

Btw i prefer the term "Microsquish".  It's less combative and is friendly and cute.  Even Windows fanboys seem quite happy with it.  It still gets the point across.

Regards from

Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Martyn Vallett <email address hidden>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 12:14
>
>And all I got from what Mark Shuttleworth said was 'Give Up'...
>
>

2 comments hidden view all 1884 comments

Hi :)
+1

to all that.  Except point 4.  I think it's precisely because of the failures of others that our chances of success are increased
1.  the failures at least raise awareness of the fact there are different opinions

2.  It allows us to learn from the mistakes and try things a bit or a LOT differently

Oh, and except point 1 also.  No-one is talking about giving up except the people saying "that is not an option" or words-to-that-effect.

Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Randall Ross <email address hidden>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 20:26
>Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Closing makes sense; but close status is wrong
>
>
>My thoughts:
>
>1) On perseverance: Giving up is not an option. "Can't Fix" admits
>defeat.
>
>2) On pragmatism: We might need to temporarily accept a binary blob (or
>three) or even a proprietary service along the road to Freedomville.
>When we do, we've introduced a bug to be fixed later. (It's a bit like
>taking shortcuts in programming. Sometimes we do that to get the result
>faster, knowing that there's debt to be repaid down the road.)
>
>3) On timeline: Ubuntu will outlive all of us. "Ubuntu is not just
>software." When making plans we should consider a planning horizon of at
>least 20 years.
>
>4) On history: Just because others have failed to implement a business
>model that maintains independence from capital markets, and respects,
>spreads and preserves freedom, we should not assume that is the 100%
>probable case. History is not always a good predictor of the future and
>swans are sometimes black.
>
>Cheers,
>Randall.
>Ubuntu Evangelists Team.
>
>

1 comments hidden view all 1884 comments
Barry Drake (b-drake) wrote :

Well, I don't think Mark said anything like 'give up'. I agree that this bug has evolved to the point that it has to be closed due to a major change in character. My suggestion: Mark (not anyone else) submit a new bug commanding the 'state of the art'. If Mark is still of folowing this after closing off the bug.

Regarding non-foss software. It might not be our ideal, but folk ought to be allowed to make a penny from their work if they so wish. The late versions of our software-centre reflect this.

Tom (tom6) wrote :

Hi :)
Have to disagree with the top man.  Ubuntu played a huge part.

Ubuntu got out there into the mainstream press over and over again.  Not as a quirky, insane, anarchistic, geek toy but as a serious business tool with repeated successes in many companies around the globe.  Redhat had already been doing some of that for years but Ubuntu took it and ran with it straight onto the main stage.  No other distro managed that so consistently.

Can Ubuntu be the 1st to achieve what so many others are aiming for and be the 1st OS to successfully run on smart-phones, handhelds, tablets and where it already succeeds?  Can Android reach the desktop or can Windows turn their dismally failing mobiles and slate/tablets into success before Ubuntu get there?  The race is on.

Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Mark Shuttleworth <email address hidden>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 11:38
>
>
><snip />
>
>Even though we have only played a small part in that shift
>
><snip />
>

1 comments hidden view all 1884 comments
Download full text (4.5 KiB)

@Barry For the record, FOSS does not imply software that is "free" as in
beer. The protagonists of free software - the folks at GNU - openly state
on www.gnu.org that it is perfectly acceptable to sell software "free" as
in "freedom" for money.
 Hi :)
Have to disagree with the top man. Ubuntu played a huge part.

Ubuntu got out there into the mainstream press over and over again. Not as
a quirky, insane, anarchistic, geek toy but as a serious business tool with
repeated successes in many companies around the globe. Redhat had already
been doing some of that for years but Ubuntu took it and ran with it
straight onto the main stage. No other distro managed that so
consistently.

Can Ubuntu be the 1st to achieve what so many others are aiming for and be
the 1st OS to successfully run on smart-phones, handhelds, tablets and
where it already succeeds? Can Android reach the desktop or can Windows
turn their dismally failing mobiles and slate/tablets into success before
Ubuntu get there? The race is on.

Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Mark Shuttleworth <email address hidden>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 11:38
>
>
><snip />
>
>Even though we have only played a small part in that shift
>
><snip />
>

--
You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
report.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1

Title:
  Microsoft has a majority market share

Status in Club Distro:
  Confirmed
Status in Computer Science Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite:
  New
Status in dylan.NET.Reflection:
  Invalid
Status in dylan.NET:
  Invalid
Status in EasyPeasy Overview:
  Invalid
Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians:
  Invalid
Status in JAK LINUX:
  Invalid
Status in LibreOffice:
  In Progress
Status in The Linux Kernel:
  New
Status in The Linux Mint Distribution:
  In Progress
Status in The Linux OS Project:
  In Progress
Status in Neobot:
  New
Status in Novabot:
  New
Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite:
  In Progress
Status in Tabuntu:
  Invalid
Status in A simple player to online TV streaming:
  Invalid
Status in Tv-Player:
  Invalid
Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project:
  In Progress
Status in Ubuntu:
  Fix Released
Status in Arch Linux:
  Confirmed
Status in Baltix GNU/Linux:
  Invalid
Status in “linux” package in Debian:
  In Progress
Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS:
  Confirmed
Status in openSUSE:
  In Progress
Status in Tilix Linux:
  New

Bug description:
  See Mark's closure comment here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
  ------

  Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC
  marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant
  to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is
  driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to
  all."

  "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives
everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever
they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it
enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience
and expertise...

Read more...

Martin Wildam (mwildam) wrote :

Sorry Mark, but as many above I also cannot consider this bug being
fixed. Only last week I wanted to buy a new Canonical certified
hardware from Dell - they definitely do not want to sell a non-Windows
PC to me. Best offer I could get (after insisting) is at about 1 third
more expensive. I never had such problems before with Dell and of
course this is not the first time I want to buy a non-Windows PC. -
Just to give an example. Similar issue at other places.

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Mark Shuttleworth
<email address hidden> wrote:
> Personal computing today is a broader proposition than it was in 2004:
> phones, tablets, wearables and other devices are all part of the mix for
> our digital lives. From a competitive perspective, that broader market
> has healthy competition, with IOS and Android representing a meaningful
> share

Yes, but these new devices mostly cannot be considered to be a
replacement for a desktop PC or laptop. Most people owning a tablet
also own a PC. For productive work in most cases a laptop or PC is
still the best choice. Tablets and Smartphones are still only a
secondary device used for emailing and news-reading (or playing) in
the very most cases.

> It's worth noting that today, if you're into cloud computing, the
> Microsoft IAAS team are both technically excellent and very focused on
> having ALL OS's including Linux guests like Ubuntu run extremely well on
> Azure, making them a pleasure to work with.

At the server side Linux already won a long time ago, but not at
client side and I always thought that Bug #1 focuses on the client.

Best regards, Martin.

Pedro Galvan (pedrogk) wrote :

Just this week, a corporate customer with whom I am starting a business relationship sent me a ms word document with a form that I needed to fill in order for them to register me as a supplier.

Needless to say, I had to use ms word to open it. I tried to do it in libreoffice but all the layout was messed up, and I didn't want to return my customer a messed up document. Also, the document had a field that was a digital signature, and libreoffice didn't recognize it properly.

As many people do, I used to have a windows partition just for cases like this. However, a few months ago my HDD failed and I decided to replace it with a SSD. With space being much more limited on SSD, I decided there was no use in having Windows around anymore.

So ... I had to send the documents to my wife and ask her to open them up in windows+office and fill them up. Fortunately, she is also an executive in the company and was legally allowed to digitally sign those papers. Otherwise, I would have had to install a digital signature certificate of myself, in somebody else's computer, and I wouldn't have liked that.

I know that some will say that they would have told the customer to send the document in a non-proprietary format. Yeah, right. I would like to see you tell that to a new customer with an important deal.

Probably others will also tell me that there were ways to cimcurvent this and still do it from Linux by using certain programs/commands/hacks. That doesn't matter, because even if I were able to do it, your average user wouldn't.

So, if you only care about the consumer+mobile world, then probably we could say this bug is fixed. But if you care about professionals, who mainly use personal computers for work, this bug is far from being fixed.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that there has been an advance in some areas and I cheer for that. But that is no reason to give a blind eye to the areas where we haven't advanced.

Tom (tom6) wrote :

Hi :)

It's probably better to tell them further down the road.  Once you have become a bit friendlier with each other and they know 1st hand that you are excellent and provide good quality services.

It might surprise them how much extra effort you had to and were willing to put in to secure the relationship.  It might embarrass them to know that Word formats are increasingly tough for people now that Windows is not number 1 and that their form causes people such problems.  Are they starting to lose business by sticking to such temperamental formats?

MS Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and 365 can "Save As ..." "OpenDocument Format" (.odt for 'text' (really documents done by word-processor NOT text-files)).  That's 6 years and 4 versions.  2007 and 2010 cunningly used the outdated Odf version 1.1 but that's only a problem for spreadsheets.  2013 and 365 use Odf version 1.2 same as everyone else has been using for over 7 years.

Odf is becoming much more widely used because it means documents will be able to be read long after MS's formats have changed so much that old documents are unreadable.  Entire countries and large organisations are switching to it.  The French police force over a year ago, hospitals in Copenhagen about a year ago, all government desktops in one of the 'States' of Spain (40,000 machines) added to 70,000 machines in schools which switched a few years ago, all of Brasil for many years now.  Errr, those are just a few that caught my eye.

It's probably still better to use the older Word formats (.Doc) (fomr MS Office 2000, Xp, 2003) rather than their newer ooxml .DocX format even if they want to restrict their business to other MS Office users because the DocX implementation changes with every release.  In fact we often find that it's the LibreOffice user that has to act as "go between" in offices when 2 people have trouble sharing documents with each other.  The DocXs produced by LibreOffice are the only ones that can be read by all different versions of MS Office!!

So, it is tough at the moment but things are moving your way and beginning to move quite a lot more quickly.  Are businesses going to be ready?  Your new corporate customer's isn't.  Yours is.
Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Pedro Galvan <>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 23:05
>Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share
>
>
>Just this week, a corporate customer with whom I am starting a business relationship sent me a ms word document with a form that I needed to fill in order for them to register me as a supplier.
>
>Needless to say, I had to use ms word to open it.
>
><snip />
>
>I know that some will say that they would have told the customer to send
>the document in a non-proprietary format. Yeah, right. I would like to
>see you tell that to a new customer with an important deal.
>
><snip />
>

Tom (tom6) wrote :
Download full text (6.3 KiB)

Hi :)
This is true but all eyes are on the portable devices.  It will be a few years before people realise that they really do need a proper desktop.

The problem is that desktops are seen as slow monstrosities.  Sure they are fast when you first get them but they soon suffer slowdowns and multiple problems.  People see portable devices being faster and staying fast.  They just don't make the connection that it's the OS not the machine.

Windows successfully killed off the 1st wave of smaller, lighter machines (netbooks) by insisting on the Windows versions being sold in shops and blocking the ones with OSes made for the form factor.  Everyone i know of that still has the original OSes or replaced them or the Windows with Ubuntu still loves their machines all these years later.  Everyone that stuck with Windows on them thinks they are retarded, even though the specs are probably higher than the tablets they love.

So the question is will people remember only how slow desktops quickly became or will they wonder if the 'new' OSes such as Android or Ubuntu can work on the desktops too.

Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Martin Wildam <email address hidden>
>To: <email address hidden>
>Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 23:00
>Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share
>
>
>Sorry Mark, but as many above I also cannot consider this bug being
>fixed. Only last week I wanted to buy a new Canonical certified
>hardware from Dell - they definitely do not want to sell a non-Windows
>PC to me. Best offer I could get (after insisting) is at about 1 third
>more expensive. I never had such problems before with Dell and of
>course this is not the first time I want to buy a non-Windows PC. -
>Just to give an example. Similar issue at other places.
>
>On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Mark Shuttleworth
><email address hidden> wrote:
>> Personal computing today is a broader proposition than it was in 2004:
>> phones, tablets, wearables and other devices are all part of the mix for
>> our digital lives. From a competitive perspective, that broader market
>> has healthy competition, with IOS and Android representing a meaningful
>> share
>
>Yes, but these new devices mostly cannot be considered to be a
>replacement for a desktop PC or laptop. Most people owning a tablet
>also own a PC. For productive work in most cases a laptop or PC is
>still the best choice. Tablets and Smartphones are still only a
>secondary device used for emailing and news-reading (or playing) in
>the very most cases.
>
>
>> It's worth noting that today, if you're into cloud computing, the
>> Microsoft IAAS team are both technically excellent and very focused on
>> having ALL OS's including Linux guests like Ubuntu run extremely well on
>> Azure, making them a pleasure to work with.
>
>At the server side Linux already won a long time ago, but not at
>client side and I always thought that Bug #1 focuses on the client.
>
>Best regards, Martin.
>
>--
>You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
>report.
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
>Title:
>  Microsoft has a majority market share
>
>Status in Club ...

Read more...

Next thing to be changed is Ubuntu promise

Damon Hartman (area51pilot) wrote :

Bravo Zulu!

William Smith (wrsmith-y) wrote :

Getting the refund back for an unused Windows license on purchased computer with Windows preinstalled can be difficult or impossible. Toshiba Finland, for example, doesn't even bother to answer enquiries of this sort.

Nowadays, you *can* find laptops preloaded with Ubuntu from Amazon. The last 3 I have bought have come with Ubuntu preinstalled. (all Asus brand)

Dear Mr Shuttleworth,

I'm happy to see that this bug is fixed but you could have attached the correct patch (read as 'valid proof'). Humbly, the figure above doesn't reflect the global perspective of adoption of FOSS in desktop market. Android/Chrome OS on desktops .. here in India? No way.

This bug is not fixed. Based on the outlined steps to repeat:

    1. Visit a local PC store.
    2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software.

At least in the Reno, NV area, the results of the "steps to repeat" involve relatively-nonexistent availability of free-and-open-source purchasing options; nearly all PCs sold here are preinstalled with either Windows or (in the case of those originally manufactured by Apple, Inc.) Mac OS X. Some PCs can be purchased without operating systems if from a small vendor, but in those cases it's reliant upon me having technical experience and making it clear that I am capable of installing software myself; larger vendors do not offer this ability. Perhaps this is different in other areas (if it is, further clarification - as well as real estate listings and job offerings to assist with me packing my bags and moving - would be appreciated).

While PC manufacturers are beginning to make their Linux offerings more apparent (namely, Dell, in addition to Linux-only vendors like System76), this is far from the mainstream, and PC users without technical experience/capability will likely be stuck with a non-free operating system preinstalled.

Martin Wildam (mwildam) wrote :
Download full text (5.2 KiB)

Not only visiting a shop you still mostly see Windows on the PCs, it took
me a lot of discussion and cost me about 200 bucks more than expected to
get a new PC from Dell (today) with Ubuntu preinstalled. First time, Dell
made troubles selling me a Windows-less PC, so for my experience here in
Austria things seem even to get worse.

But the positive point: Comparing to the words of Gandhi we are in the
phase where they fight you.

Best regards.
--
Martin Wildam
Am 06.06.2013 20:51 schrieb "northrup" <email address hidden>:

> This bug is not fixed. Based on the outlined steps to repeat:
>
> 1. Visit a local PC store.
> 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software.
>
> At least in the Reno, NV area, the results of the "steps to repeat"
> involve relatively-nonexistent availability of free-and-open-source
> purchasing options; nearly all PCs sold here are preinstalled with
> either Windows or (in the case of those originally manufactured by
> Apple, Inc.) Mac OS X. Some PCs can be purchased without operating
> systems if from a small vendor, but in those cases it's reliant upon me
> having technical experience and making it clear that I am capable of
> installing software myself; larger vendors do not offer this ability.
> Perhaps this is different in other areas (if it is, further
> clarification - as well as real estate listings and job offerings to
> assist with me packing my bags and moving - would be appreciated).
>
> While PC manufacturers are beginning to make their Linux offerings more
> apparent (namely, Dell, in addition to Linux-only vendors like
> System76), this is far from the mainstream, and PC users without
> technical experience/capability will likely be stuck with a non-free
> operating system preinstalled.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> Title:
> Microsoft has a majority market share
>
> Status in Club Distro:
> Confirmed
> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite:
> New
> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection:
> Invalid
> Status in dylan.NET:
> Invalid
> Status in EasyPeasy Overview:
> Invalid
> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians:
> Invalid
> Status in JAK LINUX:
> Invalid
> Status in LibreOffice:
> In Progress
> Status in The Linux Kernel:
> New
> Status in The Linux Mint Distribution:
> In Progress
> Status in The Linux OS Project:
> In Progress
> Status in Neobot:
> New
> Status in Novabot:
> New
> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite:
> In Progress
> Status in Tabuntu:
> Invalid
> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming:
> Invalid
> Status in Tv-Player:
> Invalid
> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project:
> In Progress
> Status in Ubuntu:
> Fix Released
> Status in Arch Linux:
> Confirmed
> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux:
> Invalid
> Status in “linux” package in Debian:
> In Progress
> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS:
> Confirmed
> Status in openSUSE:
> In Progress
> Status in Tilix Linux:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> See Mark's closure comment here:
> https...

Read more...

I firmly believe that this bug is no where near being fixed!

Things that need to be fixed:

1. Quite a few of the OEM's still don't support Linux, and whenever
drivers are asked for (I'm talking about items that aren't supported
correctly by the kernel, such as my particular GPU.) they try to get you
to use windows. I know this through experience! Now if bug 1 was truly
fixed then I should have had no problem at all getting what I needed, or
not to have needed to get the drivers in the first place.

2. This has already been mentioned a lot but the retail stores dislike
selling anything other than windows pre-installed.

3. I've already mentioned this before but, we really need some
advertising of some sort. I only know two people other than myself in my
town that use Linux. Advertising/Public awareness could change that.

I agree with PJO about the closure statement, It definitely sounded a
bit odd.

Tom (tom6) wrote :

Hi :)
Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or hand-held devices in your town!  Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywhere.

Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk.

However i do agree that this bug is not really fixed.  Quite the contrary!

Now is the time to really start working at it!  Now that mobile devices and hand-helds have become so common-place it should be easier to go into stores and demand peripherals (such as printers, wireless routers etc) that are Gnu&Linux friendly.  Demands such as "I need a printer for work but need to know that i will be able to print from my Android.  So, is this printer Gnu&Linux friendly?"  or "I need a wireless router so that my Android can access my home/work network.  Does this router have drivers for Gnu&Linux?"

This demand needs to reach the OEMs.  Stores need to know that they have got to start supporting Gnu&Linux = that there is demand for it and that the demand is growing.

Regards from
Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Martyn Vallett <email address hidden>
>To: <email address hidden>
>Sent: Friday, 7 June 2013, 8:48
>Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share
>
>
>I firmly believe that this bug is no where near being fixed!
>
>Things that need to be fixed:
>
>1. Quite a few of the OEM's still don't support Linux, and whenever
>drivers are asked for (I'm talking about items that aren't supported
>correctly by the kernel, such as my particular GPU.) they try to get you
>to use windows. I know this through experience! Now if bug 1 was truly
>fixed then I should have had no problem at all getting what I needed, or
>not to have needed to get the drivers in the first place.
>
>2. This has already been mentioned a lot but the retail stores dislike
>selling anything other than windows pre-installed.
>
>3. I've already mentioned this before but, we really need some
>advertising of some sort. I only know two people other than myself in my
>town that use Linux. Advertising/Public awareness could change that.
>
>I agree with PJO about the closure statement, It definitely sounded a
>bit odd.
>
>

Martin Wildam (mwildam) wrote :

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Tom <email address hidden> wrote:
> Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or hand-held devices in your town!
> Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywhere.
> Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk.

Of course mobile devices are all around also here in Austria, but:
Mobile devices are an addon - they help on the go and they are good
for consuming IT content, but they are bad when it comes to
"production" like Programming, Document Writing, Foto Editing, Desktop
Publishing, Design, CAD, ...

This is why I do give nothing on those news headliner telling that the
PC era is over.
Of course: A lot of people do use a computer (approx guess) 80 %
internet surving or watching video, 10 % email reading and 10 % email
writing. - Those are perfectly service with a large enough tablet.
Anyway I do not know any tablet or smartphone user not having also a
laptop or PC at home.

BTW: I consider PC and laptop as both being relevant for this bug #1.

> However i do agree that this bug is not really fixed. Quite the contrary!

Yes, indeed!

> Now is the time to really start working at it! Now that mobile devices and hand-helds have become so common-place it
> should be easier to go into stores and demand peripherals (such as printers, wireless routers etc) that are Gnu&Linux
> friendly. Demands such as "I need a printer for work but need to know that i will be able to print from my Android.

This is an uncommon use case. What I see always: Documents are sent by
email to somebody who has the desired printer on his laptop or PC
already configured in the list of available printers. At least 2 times
a week I am at customers and I would never go to connect to a wild
number of printers and after changing to the next phone model have to
do it again anyway. I already reduce the list of configured W-LAN
entries in my phone. Even if it would be just 2 clicks or touches away
- I first would have to ask some person at customer side to what
printer I should send the document xy, would maybe need to configure
page size, make sure enough paper is in the trays and so on. Apart
from the fact that on many network printers you first need to login
anyway and have to be within the customers real network and not only
in the guest W-LAN.

> So, is this printer Gnu&Linux friendly?"

This of course is an issue sometimes, but I experience less problems
to get a Linux compatible printer than a Linux compatible laptop/PC.

> or "I need a wireless router so that my Android can access my home/work network.
> Does this router have drivers for Gnu&Linux?"

I never heard of drivers I need on my client to support particular
routers. Routers are running their own operating system inside and
most of them alreasy run a flavour of Linux ASFAIK. I do consider
routers - as servers - already to be taken over by Linux.

Best regards, Martin.

Tom (tom6) wrote :
Download full text (5.6 KiB)

Hi :)
I usually find one of the main blockers to Ubuntu migrations is trying to get wireless connections to work.  They should work because yes, both sides are running Gnu&Linux but somehow it's only the Windows laptops that can connect, not the Ubuntu ones (or the Ubuntu side of the dual-boot).

We are now in a position to demand that wireless connections do work with Gnu&Linux.  No more of this Cd with only Windows drivers.  We need wireless devices that give us the equivalents for Mac and for Gnu&Linux.

People and the mainstream media (even the tech press) are years away from realising that desktops are a vital part of the eco-system.  At the moment they are still wowed by the tiny machines being faster and doing more than their crumbling ancient Windows-'driven' desktops.  Eventually they might realise they still need desktops but maybe ones that don't rely on Windows.  Lets capitalise on the brief moment we have to push mobile devices and their capabilities.

Most office workers work in only 2 or 3 locations;  home, work and maybe "in-transit between the 2".  It's fairly rare to have multiple work locations.  About half the people at my main work-place bring in their Androids, iPad/iPhones with no thought or expectation of being able to use them productively.  To be fair even desktop users tend to email documents to each other in order to get them onto the machine that can print.  They don't seem to understand that they can save to the network and them reach from any machine and they don't seem to realise that all machine can print.

However, why not print directly from their Android's?  Maybe only to 1 or 2 of the printers at work or the 1 at home (depending on where they are).

We have only a couple of years to push this type of work-flow before everyone starts to return to their desktops but right now we have an opportunity to really push for peripherals that are compatible.

Btw i have huge troubles trying to get a proper office photocopier to work.  We have a large Ricoh with a multi-sheet feeder on top, supposedly able to staple as well as collate.  It's so tall that it's made to stand on the floor and comes up to just over waist high on me although it's more like chest high to a lot of the ladies.  We also have an A3 colour printer that we normally use to print A4 in colour.  I can't get the Oki C810 nor the Ricoh to work at all under Gnu&Linux.  The tiny hewlett packard printers worked "straight off the bat" with 0 effort.

Regards from

Tom :)

>________________________________
> From: Martin Wildam <email address hidden>
>To: <email address hidden>
>Sent: Friday, 7 June 2013, 11:15
>Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share
>
>
>Hi,
>
>On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Tom <email address hidden> wrote:
>> Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or hand-held devices in your town!
>> Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywhere.
>> Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk.
>
>Of course mobile devices are all around also here in Austria, but:
>Mobile devices are an addon - they help on the go and t...

Read more...

Agree strongly.

On 7 June 2013 15:45, Martin Wildam <email address hidden> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Tom <email address hidden> wrote:
> > Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or
> hand-held devices in your town!
> > Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywhere.
> > Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk.
>
> Of course mobile devices are all around also here in Austria, but:
> Mobile devices are an addon - they help on the go and they are good
> for consuming IT content, but they are bad when it comes to
> "production" like Programming, Document Writing, Foto Editing, Desktop
> Publishing, Design, CAD, ...
>
> This is why I do give nothing on those news headliner telling that the
> PC era is over.
> Of course: A lot of people do use a computer (approx guess) 80 %
> internet surving or watching video, 10 % email reading and 10 % email
> writing. - Those are perfectly service with a large enough tablet.
> Anyway I do not know any tablet or smartphone user not having also a
> laptop or PC at home.
>
> BTW: I consider PC and laptop as both being relevant for this bug #1.
>
> [snip]
>

Xiaojun Ma (damage3025) on 2013-07-03
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
+ Ubuntu is too buggy to gain majority market share
summary: - Ubuntu is too buggy to gain majority market share
+ Ubuntu desktop is too buggy to gain majority market share

Hi :)
How can you change the summary?

It's a bit rude too. I do realise you have a single agenda to push but it would be better to start a new bug-report rather than change an existing one. People's replies now make no sense because they were replying to the original bug-report as originally reported. It is not possible to go back and edit everyone's replies to make them relevant to your new summary and to do so would be a travesty anyway. This is a historic bug-report that has been widely reported in the media and surely deserves to be treated with some respect especially if you ex hope to be treated with respect too. Please change it back.
Regards from
Tom :)

YannUbuntu (yannubuntu) on 2013-07-03
summary: - Ubuntu desktop is too buggy to gain majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
Tom (tom6) wrote :

Hi :)
Thanks YannUbuntu! :))

I accidentally read some early comments in this thread. I really liked 113's code! :) If we could have something like that on LiveCds as part of ClamAv's check or something! :))
Regards from
Tom :)

efa (efa) wrote :

we miss old "Ubuntu Manifesto" speaking about ‘free of charge’ and we feel be betrayed by the "portfolio of services provided by Canonical" of current policies

It looks like in the latest ubuntu pre-release, all us users have been ignored in favour of more spyware and adware, which leaks info to the british an US governments, through all those useless lens addon that connect to all those websites. I suspect that this spyware will become a dependency and later merged into other programs. (I noticed that all ubuntu specific programs are all dependancies of each other despite not needing the others to run in most cases.)

I also am one of the many people that have dumped ubuntu in favour of other distros because of this. I am hoping that canonical removes the spyware by 14.04, but I doubt they will considering they are a company and most companies don't give a stuff bout the users.

In a nutshell: Ubuntu gives GNU/Linux a bad name and Canonical is now as bad is Apple and Microsoft.

"(I noticed that all
ubuntu specific programs are all dependancies of each other despite not
needing the others to run in most cases.)"

could you please give examples?

Download full text (4.8 KiB)

I don't remember which it was exactly, it would have probably been unity. Anyway, the program needed the location tracker, but didn't want such filth on my system, and I eventually was able to satisify the dependancy of the program that required the location tracker by compiling the whole thing into a deb, with its data files blank. And ubuntu ran with no problem with the modification.

The next oddity is the greeter, I don't see why that would need the whole desktop enviroment. Does gdm or kdm need their entire corrosponding emviroment, no. Both of which can run on Lubuntu, and kdm can even be shipped on a custom remastersys style livecd with no issues. Therefore there is no valid reason for ubuntu's greeter to require all of ubuntu. All this is, is locking users into what cononical wants, just like Apple and Microsoft with their OSes.

As far as I'm concerned, Ubuntu is only riding on it's former glory, as it is quite likelly that if a distro now came out with as much spyware as ubuntu, they would be rejected instantly. Canonical has lost my trust completly, to the point that I don't want to use ubuntu again.

--- Original Message ---

From: "LocutusOfBorg" <email address hidden>
Sent: September 7, 2013 4:36 PM
To: <email address hidden>
Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share

"(I noticed that all
ubuntu specific programs are all dependancies of each other despite not
needing the others to run in most cases.)"

could you please give examples?

--
You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
report.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1

Title:
  Microsoft has a majority market share

Status in Club Distro:
  Confirmed
Status in Computer Science Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite:
  New
Status in dylan.NET.Reflection:
  Invalid
Status in dylan.NET:
  Invalid
Status in EasyPeasy Overview:
  Invalid
Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians:
  Invalid
Status in JAK LINUX:
  Invalid
Status in LibreOffice:
  In Progress
Status in The Linux Kernel:
  New
Status in The Linux Mint Distribution:
  In Progress
Status in The Linux OS Project:
  In Progress
Status in Neobot:
  New
Status in Novabot:
  New
Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite:
  In Progress
Status in Tabuntu:
  Invalid
Status in A simple player to online TV streaming:
  Invalid
Status in Tv-Player:
  Invalid
Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project:
  In Progress
Status in Ubuntu:
  Fix Released
Status in Arch Linux:
  Confirmed
Status in Baltix GNU/Linux:
  Invalid
Status in “linux” package in Debian:
  In Progress
Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS:
  Confirmed
Status in openSUSE:
  In Progress
Status in Tilix Linux:
  New

Bug description:
  See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
  ------

  Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC
  marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant
  to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is
  driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to
  all."

  "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free...

Read more...

affects: linux (Fedora) → fedora
Changed in fedora:
status: New → Confirmed
Gadmer-Tv (mesut-b) wrote :
Download full text (3.9 KiB)

bu ne

> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 19:12:25 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share
>
> ** Package changed: linux (Fedora) => fedora
>
> ** Changed in: fedora
> Status: New => Confirmed
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to Tivion.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> Title:
> Microsoft has a majority market share
>
> Status in Club Distro:
> Confirmed
> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite:
> New
> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection:
> Invalid
> Status in dylan.NET:
> Invalid
> Status in EasyPeasy Overview:
> Invalid
> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians:
> Invalid
> Status in JAK LINUX:
> Invalid
> Status in LibreOffice:
> In Progress
> Status in The Linux Kernel:
> New
> Status in The Linux Mint Distribution:
> In Progress
> Status in The Linux OS Project:
> In Progress
> Status in Neobot:
> New
> Status in Novabot:
> New
> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite:
> In Progress
> Status in Tabuntu:
> Invalid
> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming:
> Invalid
> Status in Tv-Player:
> Invalid
> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project:
> In Progress
> Status in Ubuntu:
> Fix Released
> Status in Arch Linux:
> Confirmed
> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux:
> Invalid
> Status in “linux” package in Debian:
> In Progress
> Status in Fedora:
> Confirmed
> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS:
> Confirmed
> Status in openSUSE:
> In Progress
> Status in Tilix Linux:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
> ------
>
> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC
> marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant
> to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is
> driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to
> all."
>
> "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world."
> * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy
>
> Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and
> concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into
> the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles
> innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious
> anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic
> practices.
>
> This bug is widely evident in t...

Read more...

simon65 (simon-65) wrote :

no

I think this bug should be forked into two because regarding PC/Laptops the
bug is IMHO definitely not fixed.

Why there should be a difference? - Well, although most people I know do
have a smartphone (or two - a private one and a business phone) and maybe
also have a tablet, ALL OF THEM do their main computer work with a PC or
laptop. You cannot assume that most of the serious computer work is done
from an Android phone or tablet. And IMHO that won't be the case for the
next years.

> This bug is widely evident in the PC industry.
>
> Steps to repeat:
>
> 1. Visit a local PC store.
> 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software.
>
> What happens:
>
> Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre-
> installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating
> system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be
> proprietary.
>
> What should happen:
>
> A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software.
>

Best regards, Martin.
--
Martin Wildam
<http://martin.wildam.org/>

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