logic error in a logic puzzle

[Rhialto]

Binary package hint: gbrainy

This bug seems related to bug #622197, but it is about the language which is in error.
The text of the question is "Johnś age is nowadays 2 times his son's age. 12 years ago. John was 3 times older than his son."

What is meant, apparently, is "John was 3 times AS OLD AS his son".
"3 times older than" is nonsense, but as far as one absolutely wants to attach a meaning to it, it must be "4 times as old".

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 11.04
Package: gbrainy 1.65-0ubuntu1
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.38-8.42-generic 2.6.38.2
Uname: Linux 2.6.38-8-generic i686
Architecture: i386
Date: Sat Apr 30 14:10:57 2011
LiveMediaBuild: Ubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Release i386 (20110427.1)
PackageArchitecture: all
ProcEnviron:
 LANGUAGE=en_US:en
 LANG=en_US.UTF-8
 SHELL=/bin/bash
SourcePackage: gbrainy
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)

[Jordi Mas (jmas-softcatala)]

Thanks for your bug report

If you Google the sentence "times older than his son" you have more than 26.000 results, many of them on math sites.

How 'John was 3 times older than his son.' is different from '"John was 3 times AS OLD AS his son" in terms of meaning? Or the current sentence is broken in terms of grammar?

Thanks,

Jordi,

[Olaf Seibert (rhialto)]

On Sat 30 Apr 2011 at 16:05:35 -0000, Jordi Mas wrote:
> If you Google the sentence "times older than his son" you have more than
> 26.000 results, many of them on math sites.

You know just as well as I do, that "many people do it" doesn't make it
right :-) "Billions of flies eat shit, so we must eat shit too!"

> How 'John was 3 times older than his son.' is different from '"John was
> 3 times AS OLD AS his son" in terms of meaning? Or the current sentence
> is broken in terms of grammar?

It is not grammatical. "Three times <what> older than his son"?
You can be "5 years older than his son", but "three times" is not some
quantity, it is simply incomplete.

The only thing it could mean, if it meant anything, is that the son is y
years old, and the father is "3 times y" years older, making him y + 3 y =
4 y years old.

Likewise, and worse, is people saying "this is three times cheaper". I
hope that such an expression doesn't occur in brainy.

Cheers,
-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- There's no point being grown-up if you
\X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl -- can't be childish sometimes. -The 4th Doctor

[Jordi Mas (jmas-softcatala)]

> It is not grammatical. "Three times <what> older than his son"?
> You can be "5 years older than his son", but "three times" is not some
> quantity, it is simply incomplete.

If you have a number X, 3 times that number is 3x.

It is not incomplete, depends on another variable.

>The only thing it could mean, if it meant anything, is that the son is y
>years old, and the father is "3 times y" years older, making him y + 3 y =
>4 y years old.

If he soon is represented by the variable Y, "times older than his son" means 3Y, not 3+Y

Regards,

Jordi,

[Olaf Seibert (rhialto)]

On Sat 30 Apr 2011 at 17:02:26 -0000, Jordi Mas wrote:
> > It is not grammatical. "Three times <what> older than his son"?
> > You can be "5 years older than his son", but "three times" is not some
> > quantity, it is simply incomplete.
>
> If you have a number X, 3 times that number is 3x.

Yes. Please write that.

> It is not incomplete, depends on another variable.

"depends on" is the same as "incomplete".

> >The only thing it could mean, if it meant anything, is that the son is y
> >years old, and the father is "3 times y" years older, making him y + 3 y =
> >4 y years old.
>
> If he soon is represented by the variable Y, "times older than his son"
> means 3Y, not 3+Y

I did not write "3+Y", I wrote "Y + 3 * Y" which is "4 * Y".
This is basic math. I would hope that "logic puzzles" were based on
logic (in fact, "math" would be more appropriate here).

Cheers,
-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- There's no point being grown-up if you
\X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl -- can't be childish sometimes. -The 4th Doctor
X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*

[Olaf Seibert (rhialto)]

On Sat 30 Apr 2011 at 23:37:01 -0000, Jordi Mas wrote:
> ** Changed in: gbrainy (Ubuntu)
> Status: New => Invalid

Oh come on! At least consult a linguist!

And: if you really think the one expression is equivalent to the other,
you should have no problem using the other. At least it will make more
people happy.

I hate it when people get taught incorrect things by example.

-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- There's no point being grown-up if you
\X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl -- can't be childish sometimes. -The 4th Doctor