eBox should be removed from Jaunty-stable

[Josh Berkus]

Binary package hint: ebox

As with other Jaunty users, I'm experiencing quite a number of problems with eBox, including:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ebox/+bug/367247

and

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/234912

And others. Having chatted with some of the eBox contributors, they say that eBox is not supported on Jaunty and we shouldn't use it. So why is it still being distributed as stable for Jaunty? It should come out of the stable repo.

[Javier Uruen Val (juruen)]

Hi,

eBox packages in Jaunty are pretty old (0.12.x). Karmic packages are newer (1.3.5). I think another approach would be to backport them to Jaunty.

Having said that I would like to explain why eBox packages are a bit different to other packages in terms of release cycle.

We have been uploading eBox packages to Ubuntu following its normal release cycle. This has a potential serious drawback in terms of quality.

For eBox, an ubuntu release is, so to speak, its "upstream" as we provide a tool to configure the some of the services that run on top of the OS.

Quick example, there's an eBox module to take care of the samba service. During the release cycle of Jaunty, we uploaded an ebox-samba package before Feature Freeze which worked perfectly with the samba version shipped in Jaunty at that moment. The release cycle went on, and at some point, a new samba version was uploaded to the Jaunty repos via Feature Exception. This new version includes new syntax or new features that made the former configuration not to work. When this happens we have to try to detect this before release and provide a new package to fix it before the official release takes place, otherwise we have to go with SRUs.

The above samba example is real:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ebox-samba/+bug/354150

The fact that we upload packages before FF, and the services and stuff we depend on might perfectly change before release makes hard for us to deliver quality packages. You can't imagine how things can break overnight :)

We try to improve the process by having a lot of automatic tests run before release to find out if a new package has broken something.

In regards to which distro is officially supported by eBox platform. I would like to add that our "official" packages are released for Hardy. And not only the packages, you can download a custom CD installer from eBox platform website which is also based on Hardy. However, we also release packages for other Ubuntu releases such as Jaunty or Karmic. Releasing for other releases than LTS gives us a chance to try new features shipped with new package versions.

As we are targeting at server platforms, it makes a lot of sense for us to be based on an LTS release. We still have packages for Jaunty and Karmic though, but most of our users are using Hardy. That's where most of the testing takes place and where you can find the most stable packages. This is the reason why we recommend using Hardy packages for production boxes.

[papukaija (papukaija)]

A buggy package isn't a reason to delete it from the repositories. Try to upgrade your system to Karmic.

[Josh Berkus (josh-agliodbs)]

papukaija,

Wait, are you saying that it's OK to have packages in "stable" for software which doesn't work on that version of Ubuntu, and is even listed *by the software producer* as not working?

And for that matter, to delete a piece of software which *did* work (Webmin) to replace it with the buggy software?

I see this as pretty much "critical fail" of the Ubuntu packaging system, expecially since eBox, once installed, cannot be uninstalled cleanly. With the ebox packages which are currently available for Jaunty, you've created a huge booby-trap for anyone who makes the mistake of trying them, where the only way to undo the mistake is to wipe and reinstall your Ubuntu system.

When I download something from "stable", I expect it to be, well, stable. Not a package which will take my system down and make it unusable. This is certainly making me re-evaluate what linux distros I recommend to commercial users.

And upgrading to "karmic" will do nothing ... per the project's note above, Karmic isn't tested either.

[papukaija (papukaija)]

Josh: Karmic's crytsetup and ecrypt related packages are currently buggy, but their available in the repoositories. And resume from hibernation fails if your swap is encrypted (will change in Lucid). These packages are not installed by default (like ebox), but their functionality is limited. However you have to live with those bugs.

Second example; ubuntu-one: bugs,bugs and bugs, but it's installed by default in Karmic.

Therefore my opinion is to keep ebox for Jaunty or backport Karmic's ebox to Jaunty (you need to create a new bug for backporting, see wiki.ubuntu.com). By the way, webmin's removal is explained here: bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=343897

[papukaija (papukaija)]

Jaunty's support will end in October...

[Josh Berkus (josh-agliodbs)]

Papukaija,

So, Webmin was removed because it was buggy and unmaintained, and replaced with a package with less features which is also buggy and unmaintained? Um .... Ok.

That does not address the "cannot remove eBox" issues. I am, like many other Ubuntu users, stuck with a system which I will have to either re-install or spend an entire weekend debugging iptables in order to get eBox, which doesn't work, off my system. I've been using various flavors of Linux since 1998, and I've never had from any other distribution an optional package which couldn't be removed without downing my system.

For this reason alone, eBox should be moved to unstable-only. If you can't safely uninstall a package, it does not belong in the stable repositories.

[Javier Uruen Val (juruen)]

@Josh eBox is moving from Hardy to Lucid as it's an LTS release. That means it will have full support from upstream.

[papukaija (papukaija)]

This bug's title doesn't really match with its description, but this is definitely an opinion which I think as impossible to do.

[papukaija (papukaija)]

We are closing this bug report because it was creted especially against Jaunty which has reached EOL (End Of Life) on October 23, 2010 as seen at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases. Please feel free to report any other bugs you may find.