security update sometimes breaks compatibility with fglrx module

[gratefulfrog]

I am still running Hoary. I just upgraded to the 2.4.10-6 kernel and X11 won't
start, it just freezes after the "metacity window manager" loading message. I
also tried the 10-5 kernel with same problem. I have reverted to the 10-4 kernel
and this is ok.

This is the same problem I reported in bug 23820.

Can you tell me if there is a chance that the 10-6 kernel will work under
breezy? I am still too scared to upgrade...

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

Sorry to hear that. It seems that you machine has a talent to break the GUI with
new kernels.

Do you have the metapackages (linux-amd64-generic) installed properly? Do you
use a non-free driver like nvidia or the ATI driver? If so, are you sure that
you upgraded the linux-restricted-modules package as well? (The metapackages
take care of this).

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #1)
> Do you have the metapackages (linux-amd64-generic) installed properly?

I do not have the package linux-amd64-generic installed since it requires
  linux-image-2.6.10-6-amd64-generic
Which is the one that crashes my system.

> Do you use a non-free driver like nvidia or the ATI driver?
I use the fglrx drivers for ATI. These were also updated today, is that a
coincidence?

> If so, are you sure that you upgraded the linux-restricted-modules package as
well? (The metapackages
> take care of this).

I believe that I upgraded all the linux-restricted-modules.They appear to be
upgraded on my package manager.

So, what do you think? am I just unlucky? If I am, how unlucky will I be when I
move to Breezy, which I'm dying to do every day, but too afraid to lose my work
platform....

Thanks again to all the Ubuntu team - You guys make Linux useful & fun!

[Fabio Massimo Di Nitto (fabbione)]

(In reply to comment #2)
> (In reply to comment #1)
> > Do you have the metapackages (linux-amd64-generic) installed properly?
>
> I do not have the package linux-amd64-generic installed since it requires
> linux-image-2.6.10-6-amd64-generic
> Which is the one that crashes my system.
>
> > Do you use a non-free driver like nvidia or the ATI driver?
> I use the fglrx drivers for ATI. These were also updated today, is that a
> coincidence?
>

could you please try to boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver?
That will exclude the problem of binary drivers breakage.
It is really important you do this test, because some security patches (that do
work fine on a non binary driver system)
are changing API/ABI. If this API/ABI is hardencoded in the binary, it is really
unlikely that we can solve it easily,
but at least we know what to look for.

> So, what do you think? am I just unlucky? If I am, how unlucky will I be when I
> move to Breezy, which I'm dying to do every day, but too afraid to lose my work
> platform....
>
> Thanks again to all the Ubuntu team - You guys make Linux useful & fun!
>
>

unliky.. possibly :) but we can at least attempt to see where the problem is.
Your help will be really appreaciated.

Thanks
Fabio

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

> could you please try to boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver?

As always, I am VERY HAPPY TO HELP (I feel guilty every day that I don't have
time to work on porting packages to 64bit, or to do more in general for the
OSF/GNU community).

Unfortunately, I know little or nothing about the linux boot process, grub,
loading unloading modules, etc. So you'll have to give me pretty explicit
instructions on how to "boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver".

Also, which kernel should I try? I am currently using the last working one:
2.6.10-4.

> Your help will be really appreaciated.
>
It's my pleasure!
Thanks,
JH.

[Fabio Massimo Di Nitto (fabbione)]

(In reply to comment #4)
> > could you please try to boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver?
>
> As always, I am VERY HAPPY TO HELP (I feel guilty every day that I don't have
> time to work on porting packages to 64bit, or to do more in general for the
> OSF/GNU community).
>
> Unfortunately, I know little or nothing about the linux boot process, grub,
> loading unloading modules, etc. So you'll have to give me pretty explicit
> instructions on how to "boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver".

ok.. well you said you are using the ATI binary driver.. just change X config to
use ati free driver and
see if it still crashes.

Fabio

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

> > instructions on how to "boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver".
> ... just change X config to use ati free driver and see if it still crashes.

Sorry, but I need a little more help, what do I have to change, i.e. what file
to edit, what values to change?

JH

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #6)
> > > instructions on how to "boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver".
> > ... just change X config to use ati free driver and see if it still crashes.
>
Sorry, again, but I found my previous /etc/X11/xorg.config from beofre adding
the fglrx driver.
I will try using this file, and upgrading to the 2.4.10-6 kernel tomorrow and
report back.

Sorry to be so uninformed, but I'm only a Linux user, not a Linux builder.
There's still a long way to go before linux will be within the reach of the
"general" public ;-)
More tomorrow.
JH

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #7)
> (In reply to comment #6)
> > > > instructions on how to "boot the kernel without loading the fglrx driver".
> > > ... just change X config to use ati free driver and see if it still crashes.
> >
> Sorry, again, but I found my previous /etc/X11/xorg.config from beofre adding
> the fglrx driver.
> I will try using this file, and upgrading to the 2.4.10-6 kernel tomorrow and
> report back.
>
But is that enough? are there things to do with modules or other? Please give
me some help here, like:
1. fix the xorg.confg,
2. run this command:
3. ...

I won't act until I get confirmation from you.

Cheers,
JH

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

(In reply to comment #8)
> > Sorry, again, but I found my previous /etc/X11/xorg.config from beofre adding
> > the fglrx driver.
> > I will try using this file, and upgrading to the 2.4.10-6 kernel tomorrow and
> > report back.
> >
> But is that enough?

It should be enough for an initial test. However, you should also remove all
linux-restricted-modules-... packages you can find on your system to be sure.
Then, if your system boots fine with the old kernel, you can try upgrading to
the new kernel and check if it still works.

If you managed to install the fglrx driver, then you are already way more
capable than an average user. :) This driver is a real pain (at least it was the
last time I looked at it, about a year ago).

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #9)
>
> It should be enough for an initial test. However, you should also remove all
> linux-restricted-modules-... packages you can find on your system to be sure.

H E L P!

My system DOESN'T boot fine without the restriced modules!

I did this:
1. replaced /etc/X11/xorg.conf with the previous version not using fglrx drivers.
2. logged out,
3. logged in: All ok!
4. reboot: all OK!
5. removed linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-4-amd64-generic (and the -3 version too!)
6. reboot FAIL!!!!!!
7. Ubuntu splash screen 1/2 displays, but that's it, nothing can be done that I
could find, C-A-F*, c-A-Del, nothing.
8. restart with 2.6.10-4 kernel in recovery mode, ok.
9. apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-4-amd64-generic
   Fails!!!! pacakge is not available, but is refered to by another pacakge!

Result: I have no system! I am up **** creek! Please Help!

> Then, if your system boots fine with the old kernel, you can try upgrading to
> the new kernel and check if it still works.
>
> If you managed to install the fglrx driver, then you are already way more
> capable than an average user. :) This driver is a real pain (at least it was the
> last time I looked at it, about a year ago).

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #10)
> H E L P!
>
> My system DOESN'T boot fine without the restriced modules!
>
I got my system back, but lost my fgrlx capabilities!

To get things up, I installed the 2.6.10-6 kernel + restricted modules, then
replaced the fgrlx driver version of xorg.conf with the original one.

I now have a system, but very slow graphics! This is really a catastrophe!

Some questions:
What about the fglrx binary drivers in Breezy? Is there any chance of that working?
What about getting the 2.6.10-4 restricted modules back? Is there anyway someone
can let me download that file and get back to my previous situation?

I may just risk everything and go to Breezy...

I'm a bit disappointed here...

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #11)
> I got my system back, but lost my fgrlx capabilities!
> I may just risk everything and go to Breezy...

I did risk everything and went to breezy!

So it went with quite some problems, ia32libs same as previous in 5.04 see my
old bug report..

Now, can someone tell me how to get the get the binary fglrx drivers to work?

simple instructions, please, I'm a bit fed up with this...

[Adam Conrad (adconrad)]

apt-get install linux-amd64-generic
apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
Replace "ati" with "fglrx" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Reboot.

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

(In reply to comment #13)
> apt-get install linux-amd64-generic
> apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
> Replace "ati" with "fglrx" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> Reboot.

That would have been sweet if it had worked.

I moved to breezy and it nearly killed me, but it didn't.

There is a major issue with the fglrx driver and also with the restricted
modules of the kernel on AMD64.
First prblem was the same as in hoary, regarding the order of loading the
restricted pkgs and the IA32 libs. This is a showstopper as it was on hoary, the
restricted pkgs must be removed, then the ia32 libs installed, then the
restriced pkgs re-installed.

The came all the issues on xorg-driver-fglrx and friends.

I finally managed to get it to work by following over and over AND OVER again
the instructions in the howto:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75378&highlight=fglrx

I also added the fglrx module manually to the end of the /etc/modules file, but
I have no idea if that is needed or correct.

I really think that this issue should be addressed by the Ubuntu team;

Also, there is a manifest slow down on graphics and application start up; Skype
for example takes 2 minutes+ to start...
And finally, what happened to the GNOME right click menu that had as 1st item
"Terminal"? Is this lost and impossible to get back?

Anyway, I am still happily programming away and doing my vieo editing on
Cinelerra (when will that be a Ubuntu package?) on the Breezy! I only wish there
were some visible improvements...

Thanks to all for your help!
Cheers,
JH.

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

(In reply to comment #11)
> (In reply to comment #10)
> > H E L P!
> >
> > My system DOESN'T boot fine without the restriced modules!
> >
> I got my system back, but lost my fgrlx capabilities!

Ok, thanks for testing this. Then it seems that the fglrx driver really is the
culprit, not the kernel updates itself.

I'm really sorry to hear that. We are aware that the fglrx driver is a pain, but
there is not much we can do about it. We do not have the source code to fix
things and the restrictive license of the driver makes it impossible to get good
support for it.

> What about the fglrx binary drivers in Breezy? Is there any chance of that
working?

A chance, yes. I can't say anything about them, though, I don't have an ATI card
(for exactly this reason).

> What about getting the 2.6.10-4 restricted modules back? Is there anyway someone
> can let me download that file and get back to my previous situation?

It should still be in your /var/lib/apt/archives/ directory (use 'sudo -i
/path/to/deb/foo.deb' to install a deb). If nothing else helps, install the
package from a Hoary CD.

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

(In reply to comment #14)
> There is a major issue with the fglrx driver and also with the restricted
> modules of the kernel on AMD64.
> First prblem was the same as in hoary, regarding the order of loading the
> restricted pkgs and the IA32 libs. This is a showstopper as it was on hoary, the
> restricted pkgs must be removed, then the ia32 libs installed, then the
> restriced pkgs re-installed.

Adam, any idea about this one?

> I finally managed to get it to work by following over and over AND OVER again

Good to hear.

> I also added the fglrx module manually to the end of the /etc/modules file, but
> I have no idea if that is needed or correct.

Sounds reasonable.

> And finally, what happened to the GNOME right click menu that had as 1st item
> "Terminal"? Is this lost and impossible to get back?

Just install the package nautilus-open-terminal to get it back.

The updated kernel packages seem to work for some people, and for others they
don't. Go closed source drivers. Readjusting bug metadata.

[gratefulfrog (gratefulfrog)]

> The updated kernel packages seem to work for some people, and for others they
> don't. Go closed source drivers. Readjusting bug metadata.

Hey thanks for all the help on this and on all the other bugs! I *REALLY*
appreciate it, and constantly tell my IT buddies about the wonders of Ubuntu's
people & software!

I'm sorry if I panicked a bit when I thouhgt I would spend weeks, not days,
getting my platform back. I well remmeber the solid month it took to get Hoary
installed and 100% funcitonal and I dreaded the thought of that all over again.
Your 6 month release schedule is a "problem" for those of us that have
"complex?" platforms since each upgrade can potentially mean tons of time lost,
and maybe even the loss of the platform altogether.

asto fglrx, if I'd have known of the problems with ATI cards, I never would have
got one! Is it better with Nvidia? or other 3D cards?

In any event, thanks again for all this good support! Never hesitate to contact
me if I can be of assistance:
http://gratefulfrog.net http://gratefulfrog.blogspot.com

[Alex Muntada (alex.muntada)]

After upgrading to Breezy it seems that JH got it working.