Simple mode for QuickEffects in effects refactoring branch

[Daniel Schürmann]

When introducing the Effect refactor branch, we replace the simple quick effect feature with a full featured effect unit. This opens pandoras box for effect experts but makes the feature hard to use for newbies, that need just a working filter or color effect knob

I propose to implement a simple mode, which is the default in Traktor Pro 3 and Hardware Mixxers like Pioneer DJ DJM-750MK2. Where you have four well designed Color effects. In Serato they are called Combo effects.

They needs to have the flowing properties:

* Only a single Parameter
* Have a neutral position at the center
* Center should be neutral
* Insert effects

This is hard to configure with the proposed effects preferences GUI not a task a new Mixxx user can handle. So Mixxx should default to four nice sounding effects for this purpose and it should be easy to restore them.

The main issue is that the user does not know anymore which chain is suitable for the filter knob. Once it is loaded, the user has no chance to fix issues. The only chance he has is to load the same chain into the full effect rack, which has a different routing, trying to fix the issue and reload it to the quick effect knob.

This can be implemented similar to the EQ preferences. By default only special designed Quick effects shall be shown. Whith a checkbox you can show all effects (expert mode).

[Be (be.ing)]

This is already implemented with the default presets.

[ronso0 (ronso0)]

Loading the chain to another unit is feasible IMO.
Is this a problem that we can solve with a good effects documentation?

I don't think we should add detailed effects configuration to th preferences. A themed popup triggered from within the skin could work. Still rather complex to implement afaict

As a first step I think it would help to move the simple effects to the top of the list (Pref and effect selector) so users don't get lost in that long default quick effect list (with elided names btw).

A separator in between (standard) single-effect QuickEffects and advanced QuickEffect chains would improve the overview even more.
(can't tell how this could be accomplished because in the Preferences the separator should NOT be allowed to be dragged to the other chain list).

[Be (be.ing)]

I am firmly opposed to "advanced" or "expert" modes. These are lazy cop outs and almost never good designs.

Setting a different default order of the Quick Effects presets list is feasible, sure.

[Be (be.ing)]

The chain presets from res/effects are at the top of the list intentionally for discoverability. The Filter single effect chain preset is loaded by default.

[Daniel Schürmann (daschuer)]

In 2.3 we show only effects with suitable super knob mappings.
This help is now lost.

I think we should work to wards a GUI that recommends the combo effect like changes that are ideal for being a quiche effect

This is valid idea, I like to track.

[Be (be.ing)]

> This help is now lost.

This is incorrect.

> I think we should work to wards a GUI that recommends the combo effect like changes that are ideal for being a quiche effect

Again, this is what the default presets in res/effects already do.

Please stop cluttering the bug tracker with non-actionable things. This is why the bug tracker is such a mess.

[Daniel Schürmann (daschuer)]

This one has real relevance. A Quick effect in sense of Pioneer or the new Traktor controllers does only work flawlessly when it is an insert effect and has a neutral position at the center of the meta knob.
If this is the case regularly, the related GUI can be kept simple.
The defaults and the effect preferences should make it hard to missconfigure this.

[Be (be.ing)]

Please stop this.

[Daniel Schürmann (daschuer)]

It is Ok to be different opinion, but it is not OK to close a bug because of this since it is an open discussion. If you have no interest in discussing this just ignore it.

I think it contains valid points that need to be addressed for a flawlessly user experience.

[Be (be.ing)]

This is incredibly demotivating. I am seriously considering unregistering from Launchpad notifications entirely.

It is okay to propose a new idea. It is not okay to clutter the bug tracker with incoherent, nonactionable rambling about things that are not problems. This is the root reason why the bug tracker is a mess of pointless bug reports which doesn't get organized. I have lost track of how many new people interested in contributing to Mixxx have been discouraged over the years by the state of the bug tracker. Switching to a modern technical system will not solve this.

[Be (be.ing)]

> A Quick effect in sense of Pioneer or the new Traktor controllers

So you mean to tell me that I spent 3.5 years, much of which dealing with nonsense gatekeeping and bikeshedding -- which has not been apologized for -- , and $1000 of my own money to buy one of these controllers specifically so I could use these features I spent years developing and designing, and my design does not work with the hardware? I don't mean to say that I did everything 100% perfect but... seriously?? Have you actually used any of this hardware? Why do you think your incoherent critique is more important than my real world experience actually using the design with the hardware as I intended? Can you please stop and listen to the people who would be affected by what you're saying?

[Owen Williams (ywwg)]

Hi Be, I'm sorry that you disagree with Daniel's suggestion but he raises some good points and this is a topic well worth discussing. Please do not close this bug again.

I would also ask that you reread our Code of Conduct, which requires that discussions be kind. Your use of aggressive, heated language here is not acceptable: "incoherent, nonactionable rambling", "[bugs like this one] is the root reason why the bug tracker is a mess", "pointless bug reports", "incoherent critique".

The second paragraph applies well here: "Treat everyone with respect. Build on each other's ideas. Each of us has the right to enjoy our experience and participate without fear of harassment, discrimination, or condescension, whether blatant or subtle. Remember that Mixxx is a geographically distributed team and that you may not be communicating with someone in their primary language. We all get frustrated when working on hard problems, but we cannot allow that frustration to turn into personal attacks."

[ronso0 (ronso0)]

re neutral center
I don't think this is required for two reasons:
1)The mentioned Pioneer mixers have
* 4 fx selectors
* Parameter knob below (e.g. HP > neutral > LP)
* wet/dry knob per channel
So, before changing an effect, the channel wet/dry can easily be turned down to avoid sudden sound changes.
The NI controllers have enable buttons per channel for that purpose.

2) With neutral center what should left/right hand side do for Dub echo for example?

[Daniel Schürmann (daschuer)]

In case of Pioneer DJ DJM-750MK2 Dub Echo it is:
Left Side: Echo + Band Pass
Right Side: Echo + High Pass

The Pioneer DJ DJM-750MK2 has NO dry/wet control in the Quick effect region.

From the Manual:
"
2 Turn the [COLOR] control. The effect is applied to the channel for which the control is turned.
The effect’s quantitative parameter can be adjusted by turning the [PARAMETER] control.
"

It is the [COLOR] control is our Quick effect meta knob. The Parameter knob adjust one additional parameter.
See: https://youtu.be/pDOO4dckuL0?t=281

Here the details:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1294477/Pioneer-Dj-Djm-750mk2.html?page=14

Here a detailed demonstration of the DJM900nexus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI8uueOlhIE
It is powerful, simple to use and accessible without special knowledge about effect.

[ronso0 (ronso0)]

thanks for the explanation!

[Be (be.ing)]

Owen, I am asking you to stop trying to intervene in conflict. Every time you do, you inflame tension. It was inappropriate to reopen this. There are no bugs reported here, nor any actionable proposals for changes that could be made to Mixxx.

[Be (be.ing)]

> Left Side: Echo + Band Pass
Right Side: Echo + High Pass

This is already implemented as the Filter Echo preset.

The superknob for some presets are neutral at center and some are neutral when turned fully left. This is the same as effect metaknobs have always been. This is by design, there is no bug, there is no problem, nor anything to discuss.

[Be (be.ing)]

Sorry for my harsh language earlier. Regardless, this repeated pattern over many years of discussing imaginary problems while repeatedly refusing to listen to anyone else saying there is no problem is very harmful and demotivating. Just in the last few months we have had two developers simply give up trying to improve Mixxx because of this (https://github.com/mixxxdj/mixxx/pull/4239 and https://github.com/mixxxdj/mixxx/pull/4279). This threatens to kill the Mixxx project if it continues by pushing people away who try to help. We just talked about this a few weeks ago when Daniel obstructed progress for days rambling about using vcpkg as a Git submodule as it is designed to be used while ignoring the people who would actually be using that who repeatedly said that there is no problem. This behavior needs to stop urgently.

[ronso0 (ronso0)]

@Be
You seem to ignore that there are also Wishlist 'bugs', and no bug must be closed until either all aspects are considered fixed/won't fix/invalid/resoled, or valid aspects have been moved to separate bugs.
Closing bugs where this does not apply is disrespectful and ignorant towards all who are involved and invested time.
Furthermore I consider it unproductive to drag in unresolved frustration about other topics because this inevitably derails and intoxicates the discussion and daunts others to join in.
Re this particular bug (and other recent bug reports related to effects refactoring) it seems you WANT to confuse proposals for improvement as critique on your work and wipe them off the table without any discussion. IF there was detailed prior discussion you should at least link to it so others get a chance to understand your reasoning.

I'm reopening this bug because here we have at least one concrete step to improve the situation for new users which you yourself agreed to https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/1947908/comments/2

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

[Expired for Mixxx because there has been no activity for 60 days.]

[Daniel Schürmann (daschuer)]

This is a valid wishlist bug among all our other wishlist bugs. It describes some aspects that make it worth to track. Please keep it open. Maybe I or someone else picks it up on day.

[Be (be.ing)]

There is no coherent proposal here, nor any bug identified. This has expired multiple times and inappropriately been reopened despite nobody complaining and no new information being provided. Please stop this nonsense.

[Owen Williams (ywwg)]

I talked to one mixxx user who volunteered, unprompted, that effects had gotten very complicated so he stopped using them. I agree that this bug is best marked "incomplete" because it is still a little vague. But we have three developers who want to keep it open, and one who wants to close it. So we will keep it open. Be, stop closing this bug.

A good next step would be to come up with a concrete proposal. Here is my idea for that:

* create a set of good defaults for the quickeffect and make them available by default in the quickeffect list.
* improve effects documentation

[Owen Williams (ywwg)]

I don't think this has to be a simple mode specifically, I think a good set of built-in presets will go a long way here.

[Owen Williams (ywwg)]

I also agree the UX for creating effect presets is too complicated and not well-suited for creating effects that work well with quickeffects. But we do need specific designs and proposals

[Be (be.ing)]

> create a set of good defaults for the quickeffect and make them available by default in the quickeffect list

Already done. This is not an actionable proposal.

> improve effects documentation

How?

[Owen Williams (ywwg)]

Creating a section of the manual that walks through the process of creating a new effect preset by loading effects into a unit, saving it, then using the effects preferences to make it a quick effect, then loading that quick effect into a superknob on the mixer.

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

[Expired for Mixxx because there has been no activity for 60 days.]

[Swiftb0y (swiftb0y)]

Mixxx now uses GitHub for bug tracking. This bug has been migrated to:
https://github.com/mixxxdj/mixxx/issues/10570