Most tool bar buttons are useless

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Most tool bar buttons are never or rarely used.

Only frequently used buttons shall be shown by default. And only when it is not more intuitive than the right click menu, like when copying and pasting or per object action.

The status bar can also be hidden in some of these applications, the same as the sidebar contracted by default.

Here are some suggested defaults:
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254847787/Writer.png
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254849290/Impress.png
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254846207/Calc.png
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254849096/Math.png

Good interface design shows what is currently in use in that very moment, or used constantly. And gets rid of everything else.

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 15.10
Package: libreoffice (not installed)
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 4.2.0-35.40-generic 4.2.8-ckt5
Uname: Linux 4.2.0-35-generic x86_64
ApportVersion: 2.19.1-0ubuntu5
Architecture: amd64
CurrentDesktop: Unity
Date: Thu Apr 21 15:05:57 2016
InstallationDate: Installed on 2015-11-14 (159 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 15.10 "Wily Werewolf" - Release amd64 (20151021)
SourcePackage: libreoffice
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

Created attachment 116691
single toolbar

This was an enhancement that i had previously brought to a design meeting in November 2014 after working on it and posting it in redmine ( https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/529 ).

The single toolbar concept can be found in apps like Google Docs and IBM Symphony and it provides a simplified set of highly used toolbar buttons so that the document can take up the majority of the screen and let users focus on creating their documents.

Details of how IBM Symphony achieved this single toolbar mode can be found in this redmine thread ( https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/163 ).

[Barta-c (barta-c)]

hi Jay,
just to better understand this enhancement request...
do you propose to replace the actual multiple toolbar setup with a single toolbar setup or do you want just to add a new toolbar with all the commands in it (this can already be achieved manually creating a custom toolbar and hiding all the others)

IMHO it would be great to have both things so user can decide which one they prefer.

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

Created attachment 116810
single toolbar xml

Hey Tommy,

The current multiple toolbar setup is the default and a user would be able to enable the single toolbar mode, if that is what they prefer. Likely in View > Mode > Single Toolbar Mode.

The custom toolbar xml file used in the screenshot is attached for users who want to play with it. This custom toolbar does handle a user's basic writing needs, but it doesnt handle contextual things like when you select an image and wanting to add a border or selecting a shape and wanting to change its border color, though these things can be formatted using the context menu.

So a decision has to be made to either do the single toolbar mode as a single toolbar that doesnt change or a group of toolbars that fit on a row that can handle context.

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

So the Writer toolbar is ready and sent as a patch: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/22818

So that is pending is the creation of an UNO command to do the following.

On Click:
1) Backup to the user profile a list of the module toolbars where the Visible property is true
2) Set all Visible=true toolbars to Visible=false
3) Enable single toolbar mode toolbar (singlemode.xml) by setting its Visible=true
4) Backup the current user profile module 'ToolbarMode' entry in the user profile
5) Set the user profile module 'ToolbarMode' entry to 'Single'
6) Backup the current icon theme name and size and set it to Breeze small

On Un-Click: (basically the opposite)
1) Restore the backed up user profile module 'ToolbarMode' entry
2) Clear the backed up 'ToolbarMode' entry
3) Hide single toolbar mode toolbar by setting its Visible=false
4) Restore the Visible=true to the backed up toolbars list
5) Clear the backed up toolbar list
6) Restore backed up icon theme name and size

The point of this functionality is so that when a user enables and then disables single toolbar mode, all their previously set toolbars settings wont be reset. The UNO command should be accessible in Writer and Calc as Impress and Draw can easily be set to utilize a single toolbar. This same UNO command functionality is intended for Sidebar Mode (bug 92220), so ideally the code should be written with the intention that it can be used reused/extended. It would be ideal if there was a single UNO command (e.g. .uno:ToolbarMode) which could take an argument for the toolbar mode to be done (e.g. .uno:ToolbarMode?Style:string=Single)

[Vasya-shipuchkin (vasya-shipuchkin)]

Hi, Yousuf. this work will be continued? because, are working on analogue ribbon https://smehrbrodt.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/improving-the-toolbars-in-libreoffice/

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

Hi Vasya,

(In reply to vasya from comment #4)
> Hi, Yousuf. this work will be continued? because, are working on analogue
> ribbon
> https://smehrbrodt.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/improving-the-toolbars-in-
> libreoffice/

Notebookbar is another UI mode, but it wont be replacing the current toolbars, but would be an alternative, similar to sidebar mode.

[kompilainenn (79045-79045)]

Yousuf,

1) May be in this mode also hide menu bar?

2) Add on Single toolbar icons "Normal view"

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

(In reply to kompilainenn from comment #6)
> 1) May be in this mode also hide menu bar?

Not a good idea as without the menu bar users wouldnt be able to access the functions that arent available in the single toolbar.

> 2) Add on Single toolbar icons "Normal view"

As its activation would hopefully be in the menu bar as View > Mode > Single Toolbar Mode, its deactivation would likely be in a similar fashion.

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

Created attachment 123497
single toolbar xml for calc

For those wanting to test out what a single toolbar would be like on Calc, here it is.

[Ljiljan Veselinović (lilicus)]

*** Bug 96608 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Ljiljan Veselinović (lilicus)]

Just additional idea. Is there any way to create drop-down list of all other toolbars (or at least the most important one), which could be selected and displayed over the current single-toolbar in single-toolbar mode? Something I suggested in https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80752 but implementation does not need to include the "line" above single-toolbar with toolbar names, yet simple drop-down list?

[Libreoffice-commits (libreoffice-commits)]

Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=ba9783d36f4b9de07688c6883edfeecef8ccccb5

tdf#92218 Implement Writer single toolbar mode toolbar

It will be available in 5.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

(In reply to Ljiljan from comment #10)
> Just additional idea. Is there any way to create drop-down list of all other
> toolbars (or at least the most important one), which could be selected and
> displayed over the current single-toolbar in single-toolbar mode? Something
> I suggested in https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80752 but
> implementation does not need to include the "line" above single-toolbar with
> toolbar names, yet simple drop-down list?

That is likely something that can be achieved with the notebookbar, so i'd suggest passing your idea onto kendy or samuel along with some mockups of how it would function.

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

As the suggested functionality in comment 3 is likely to be left for implementation with the notebookbar, the single toolbar mode UNO command should be a toggle/checkbox command that when toggled on enables (i.e. Visible=true)

View > Toolbars > Standard (Single Mode)

and disables (i.e. Visible=false)

View > Toolbars > Standard
View > Toolbars > Formatting
View > Toolbars > Image
View > Toolbars > Drawing Object Properties
View > Toolbars > Frame (Writer)
View > Toolbars > Table (Writer)
View > Toolbars > Bullets and Numbering (Writer)
View > Toolbars > Text Object (Writer)
View > Toolbars > Text Formatting (Calc)

When the single toolbar mode UNO command is toggle off, it does the reverse.

[kompilainenn (79045-79045)]

Yousuf, single toolbar in Writer does not fit in 1280 pixel width. It's default resolution of my monitor 19" (1280х1024)

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

(In reply to kompilainenn from comment #14)
> Yousuf, single toolbar in Writer does not fit in 1280 pixel width. It's
> default resolution of my monitor 19" (1280х1024)

Kompilainenn, it fits if you use small icons, which is how it is intended to fit for users by default, while users with larger screens can use large icons if they choose.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/9/99/Single_Toolbar_Mode.png

[kompilainenn (79045-79045)]

(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #15)
> (In reply to kompilainenn from comment #14)
> > Yousuf, single toolbar in Writer does not fit in 1280 pixel width. It's
> > default resolution of my monitor 19" (1280х1024)
>
> Kompilainenn, it fits if you use small icons, which is how it is intended to
> fit for users by default, while users with larger screens can use large
> icons if they choose.
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/9/99/Single_Toolbar_Mode.png

by default, Windows build uses large icons on Toolbars.
Maybe envisage verification before activation Single Toolbar? Or show notification to the user..."Your monitor have aspect ratio 5:4. Use mode Single Toolbar with small icons or not use it's!"?

[Vstuart-foote (vstuart-foote)]

(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #15)
> (In reply to kompilainenn from comment #14)
> > Yousuf, single toolbar in Writer does not fit in 1280 pixel width. It's
> > default resolution of my monitor 19" (1280х1024)
>
> Kompilainenn, it fits if you use small icons, which is how it is intended to
> fit for users by default, while users with larger screens can use large
> icons if they choose.
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/9/99/Single_Toolbar_Mode.png

The Standard (Single Mode) toolbar already has the double >> showing a drop menu of the remaining hidden widget buttons. So use on screens narrower than 1280px or when sized narrow the buttons are available.

But can an action of the toggle into the Standard (Single Mode) include adjustment of the Icon size to small? We set Icon Size to Auto by default, can we make use of that?

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #17)
> But can an action of the toggle into the Standard (Single Mode) include
> adjustment of the Icon size to small? We set Icon Size to Auto by default,
> can we make use of that?

Hopefully when a dev looks into creating the uno command mentioned in comment 13, the code can check for the screen resolution and set the icons to small if appropriate.

[Ljiljan Veselinović (lilicus)]

Regarding default items in toolbar. I don't think that "New" and "Open" should be there. It is not something you use often. You open the document or create a new one and you are working on that document. So most of the time, these two items are useless. On the other hand, clicking on the "File" -> "New" or "Open" does not involve two many steps.

The missing icon is PDF (dialog with "where to export" appears after clicking, which is different than File -> Export to PDF). That is something LibreOffice user have to use very often when sending files to others since ODT is not standard everywhere yet and it allows us to send document as designed in LibreOffice.

My recommendation is to rearrange font text items as well: Style, Font, Size, Bold/ Italic/ underline and then Alignment. This was standard order in LibreOffice so far as well as in other programs.

And about this discussion of large vs. small icon size. Large icons provide better visual appearance so I think it should be default size regardless of monitor size/ resolution. The other argument that goes for large icon size is easier clicking. When icons are small, user have to be very precise in order to select the icon. "16px" is two times smaller place than "32px" which means that you have to be very patient with the mouse.

[Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e)]

Most tool bar buttons are never or rarely used.

Only frequently used buttons shall be shown by default. And only when it is not more intuitive than the right click menu, like when copying and pasting or per object action.

The status bar can also be hidden in some of these applications, the same as the sidebar contracted by default.

Here are some suggested defaults:
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254847787/Writer.png
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254849290/Impress.png
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254846207/Calc.png
https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254849096/Math.png

Good interface design shows what is currently in use in that very moment, or used constantly. And gets rid of everything else.

[Vstuart-foote (vstuart-foote)]

Hi Alberto, thanks for posting.

But, would observe that if they were useless--button widgets (and other toolbar GUI controls)--they would not exist to link to the .uno commands they control.

Would say this is back to our ongoing Benjamin vs. Eve discussion. What minimum set of features should be presented in a default UI to provide a well functioning and intuitive UI but at the same time not annoy experienced users by requiring excessive UI customization beyond defaults.

And of course this is compounded by our hybrid mix of static and dynamic or modal toolbars that assert depending on the object with focus--or task being performed.

So, hope you see that handling Toolbar default configurations are not as simple as you have put forward.

[Vstuart-foote (vstuart-foote)]

As it is against Ubuntu "Wily Werewolf" setting version to 5.0.2.2

[Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e)]

Sure all these features have some functionality to someone. But the idea here is to keep at view features that are only used right in that moment, or use constantly by most people. Then allow users to freely change things if they have uncommon needs.

Also note that any improvement takes a side apart from what is common till that moment, and that inherently means taking the risk of disappointing someone. So I would pursue satisfying 90% of people, instead of 99%.

(https://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch04_Make_Opinionated_Software.php)

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips (philipz85)]

seems similar to the single toolbar concept i'm working on in bug 92218.

[Cno (cno)]

(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #4)
> seems similar to the single toolbar concept i'm working on in bug 92218.

May be. But does it make sense to keep this issue alive? Better direct input to the place where it is used..

[Vstuart-foote (vstuart-foote)]

OK then, duping it off to bug 92218

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 92218 ***

[Vstuart-foote (vstuart-foote)]

*** Bug 99435 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e)]

As I mention in (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99435), one big drawback of the current tool bars is simply that there are just too many unused buttons used.

Please read that bug for further information.

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos (fitojb)]

“Most tool bar buttons are useless”… to you.

Quoting https://m.signalvnoise.com/why-i-love-ugly-messy-interfaces-and-you-probably-do-too-edff4a896a83#.ypuw3zs4s

“There’s no reason to assume that having a lot of links or text on a page, or a dense UI, or a sparse aesthetic is fundamentally bad — those might be fine choices for the problem at hand. Especially if it’s a big, hairy problem.”

[Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e)]

@ Adolfo Jayme

The Document Foundation has the last saying on this, and for the moment the upstream bug is open.

[Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e)]

@ Adolfo Jayme

Moreover I never said messy, but useless.