Cannot Import jpegs from Darktable

[Roland Schuller]

I use my Nikon D610 with an Panorama Head for 360 Panos. I shoot with RAW+JPEG (FIne)
When I try to stitch the Jpegs everything is Ok. Average error so around 2 - 6.

But when I take the Jpegs form Darktable (NEF Raw just with Brighness correction, no Distortion correction) then it is not possible to stich them .
Either it does not find where the Image belongs to or when I works the Preview an the Result are a complete mess.

When I directly convert the Images using DCRAW to 16 Bit Tiff it works.

Filed a Bug in Darktable, but they said that i should contact you.

I'm a Photografer working on Linux. Plese help me to finish my Workflow.
Thanx

Hugin 2014.0.0.45cf4a3e9573
Debian Testing 64Bit

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

>
> But when I take the Jpegs form Darktable (NEF Raw just with Brighness
> correction, no Distortion correction) then it is not possible to stich
> them .
> Either it does not find where the Image belongs to or when I works the
> Preview an the Result are a complete mess.
>

Could you please provide a .pto file for the project using the jpeg files
converted by darktable?

> When I directly convert the Images using DCRAW to 16 Bit Tiff it works.
>

Could you please also provide the .pto file for the project that works OK
with the DCRAW Tiff files?

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

[Roland Schuller (roland-x)]

Did It.
I Put everything together.
the ptos, the Raw the Tiff, the Result, the jpegs.

BTW. 16 Bit Tiff stitched together into an 16 Bit output wont work either.

Everything neat in 3Gb http://www.it-open.at/fotos/HuginDarktable.tar.bz2

Hope this helpes.

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 04:29:08 +1000, Roland Schuller <email address hidden>
wrote:

> Did It.
> I Put everything together.
> the ptos, the Raw the Tiff, the Result, the jpegs.
>
> BTW. 16 Bit Tiff stitched together into an 16 Bit output wont work
> either.
>
> Everything neat in 3Gb http://www.it-
> open.at/fotos/HuginDarktable.tar.bz2
>

There seems to be something wrong with that URL.
If I just use http://www.it-open.at/fotos there is no sign of
HuginDarktable.tar.bz2.

At this stage it really isn't necessary to provide everything, and 3GB is
far too much for me!

The .pto files provide a lot of information and may be enough, so just
provide them initially.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

Roland,

A few thoughts about things you might check, if you haven't already done so...

(1) The output size and quality of the jpegs being exported from Darktable. Under "Gobal options" you should have "max size" set to 0 x 0 (export at same size as the inputs).

(2) have a look at this thread , <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2129296 >, is it related?

(3) Can you export another file format from Darktable (e.g. TIFF) using all the same Darktable settings, and see how Hugin handles those input images?

Cheers,
Terry

[Roland Schuller (roland-x)]

1. Checked. Did so.
2. No. Jpegs look fine (I use them for my everyday work as Photographer)
3. Tried. But same result. (Tried Tiff)

[Stefan Peter (s-peter-deactivatedaccount)]

Hi Roland

Interestingly the Darktable jpgs have less information that the original ones:

-rwx------ 1 stefan stefan 15270635 Jun 8 12:30 Orig Jpeg/DSC_8317.JPG
vs
-rwxrwxr-x 1 stefan stefan 3777924 Jun 16 08:30 Darktable RAW2JPEG/DSC_8317.jpg

Therefore, the control point detector finds less connections between the images and they are of lesser quality. From your ptos:

OrigJpg.pto:
Images are connected by 811 control points, Mean error after optimisation: 3.2 pixels, max 11.1. Good fit

Darktable Jpegs - Fail.pto:
Images are connected by 617 control points, Mean error after optimisation: 41.0 pixels, max 3945.2. Very bad fit

As a result, this project has failed to stitch with the dreaded "Excessive overlap detected" error message.

I have attempted a stitch with hugin 2014.0 RC2. After deleting the outlier points (distance > 30) and re-optimizing for "Positions and View", I got 495 control points, a mean error of 7.3 and max distance of 31.9 which is still a bad fit. However, the project did stitch (see http://hugin.stepet.ch).

To summarize: I can see no specific problem with jpgs from Darktable and Hugin. But your Darktable images seem to miss some information which influences the control point detector negatively. Maybe you need to add some sharpening? Some contrast?

With kind regards

Stefan Peter

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

I had a lot of trouble with the Darktable jpegs .pto. I used dummy images (ptodummy) to check the optimisation and stitching.
The OrigJpg.pto says all the images are 6016x4016 while the Darktable_Jpegs-Fail.pto says all but two are 4028x6030, and 8329 and 8331 are 6030x4028.
The two images that are seen in landscape mode probably resulted from Hugin getting all out of kilter due to the bad control points, some of which were way out.
It would seem that darktable Didn't export images at the same size as the input images, although I don't know if this has had anything to do with the problem Hugin has had in finding correct control points.

Cheers,
Terry

[Roland Schuller (roland-x)]

Ill send you one Original Jpeg and one Exported from Darktable.
The Darktable one is smaller (85% Compression) but I also tried it with 100%. Same Result but 32Mb per Jpeg.

I also noticed that the Image Size differs from the Original but so does the DCRAW one and it works.

Tell me what else you need to fix this Bug. I heard from some tests in a German Computer magazine that they had similar problems. Perhaps their problem is related to this bug.

[Roland Schuller (roland-x)]

@Stefan Peter

The Output lookes good. I Tried to export the Jpegs from Darktable with 100% -> Same Result.
Try not to use my pto's but just import the Images into Hugin.
The Originals from the Camera work like a charm.
The Darktable exported on the other hand have to Igames that wont find anything and you have to do by hand.
Even at greatest zoom Detail i do not see much difference.
And what confuses me most. DCRAW converter also works lice a charm.
Could it be that embedded color Profiles make the Problems? Just guessing!

Roland

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

Hello Roland,

On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 23:25:43 +1000, Roland Schuller <email address hidden>
wrote:

[snip]

> Tell me what else you need to fix this Bug. I heard from some tests in a
> German Computer magazine that they had similar problems. Perhaps their
> problem is related to this bug.
>

Can you provide any more information on this story...which magazine, date
of publication, a link, anything that might help relate the two issues?

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

Roland,
Looking back over this story, it does suggest to me that Hugin isn't the source of your problem.

(1) Camera jpegs stitch OK
(2) TIFF from NEF raw via dcraw stitch OK
(3) Jpeg from NEF via Darktable have problems stitching
(4) TIFF from NEF via Darktable have problems stitching

Have I got all this correct?

If yes, then I think the focus needs to be on Darktable to see if there is something going on there.

Which version of Darktable are you using? Is there a later version available that you can try?

Are your Darktable export settings causing the problem?

Cheers,
Terry

[Stefan Peter (s-peter-deactivatedaccount)]

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Hi Roland

Am 18.06.2014 15:41, schrieb Roland Schuller:
> @Stefan Peter
>
> The Output lookes good. I Tried to export the Jpegs from Darktable
> with 100% -> Same Result.

I have used Darktable 1.4.2 to convert your NEF files to jpeg using
default settings: My jpegs are between 15 and 20 MBytes, compared to
your 3.5 to 4.8 MBytes. Obviously this size difference can not be
explained by different compression settings.

While trying to find out what the difference between yoour and my DT
jpgs may be, I noticed that your jpgs have been exported using your
screens color profile instead of sRGB or AdobeRGB. I could not verify
that this is the cause of the size difference because using my screen
profile creates slightly larger jpgs than using sRGB, but my screen is
calibrated.

Can you try to export your NEFs using sRGB or AdobeRGB and give them a
try?

Other than that, I fear that we can not really help you. It actually
*is* possible to create a panorama using your DT jpgs, as I have
proven, although some manual intervention was required. So there is no
bug we could fix, as far as I see.

Regards

Stefan Peter

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[Roland Schuller (roland-x)]

CT Magazin (German) tesed some Panorama Software (Hugin, Autopano, ...) They had to make all Points by hand otherwise it wont work. Autopano dit work.
I tried Autopano as well with my Jpegs. They work without problems.

http://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv/ct/2014/11/120_Extrabreit

So yes I think the problemcauser is Darktable so I filed a bug there as well. But the Problem itself is in Hugin.
It is the Combination of Hugin and Darktable that does not work. Exchange one thing and all works good.
But these are my Programms of choice.

@Stefan

The Jpeg Size comes from the Jpeg Compression. When I export them with 100% they are 33MB. But the Problem exists.

SHIT. JUST found the (I think) real problem. I Tried to stitch the Project although it was a complete mess.
The stitching just went fine. But it looks awful just in the OpenGl Preview.

Have a look at the Screenshot.

[tduell (tduell-iinet)]

Hello Roland,

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:04:59 +1000, Roland Schuller <email address hidden>
wrote:

> CT Magazin (German) tesed some Panorama Software (Hugin, Autopano, ...)
> They had to make all Points by hand otherwise it wont work. Autopano dit
> work.
> I tried Autopano as well with my Jpegs. They work without problems.
>
> http://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv/ct/2014/11/120_Extrabreit

Thanks for the link, but unfortunately it appears to only be available in
German so I am unable to understand it.
Given your comment, above, that control points had to be added manually
before Hugin would work, the problem may be similar, maybe not. Too hard
to say.

>
> SHIT. JUST found the (I think) real problem. I Tried to stitch the
> Project although it was a complete mess.
> The stitching just went fine. But it looks awful just in the OpenGl
> Preview.
>
> Have a look at the Screenshot.
>

Can you provide the .pto file for this project? I would like to see if I
can reproduce this behaviour here (Fedora 20 x86_64, Hugin 2014.1.0).

I am assuming that you have had another try, and that this .pto may not be
exactly the same as previously supplied.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell