Select resolutions based on vertical refresh rate and maximum horizontal sync

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas]

Currently ubuntu hoary selects wrong default resolution for most monitors I
tested :(

on most my tested systems (17' CRT monitors) ubuntu hoary live starts in
1280x1024 resolutions, which is really not good for these monitors, most people
use 1024x768 or 1152x864

fonts are very small when using 17' CRT monitor with 1280x1024 resolution and
refresh rate is 60 or 75 Hz, which is really bad, according to TCO99 standard
vertical refresh frequency *must* be >=85Hz (look at Section 2 (Visual ergonomic
- Image stability) of TCO99:

http://www.tcodevelopment.com/pls/nvp/Upload.Show?CID=776&MID=141

There is simple table of mandatory resolutions and vertical refresh for CRT
monitors:
CRT Size VRefresh Resolution
14"-15" >=85 Hz >=800x600
   17" >=85 Hz >=1024x768
19"-21" >=85 Hz >=1280x1024
  >21" >=85 Hz >=1280x1024

Btw, TCO99 recommended vertical refresh is 100Hz and I think it would be very
nice to select according display mode if possible (if monitor could work with
mandatory resolution at 100Hz)

[Daniel Stone (daniels)]

Er, most monitors won't do 85Hz or 100Hz in any real mode; only higher-end ones.
 I think a better metric to aim for is above 70Hz; the mode selector should be a
little more intelligent here, but at the moment, it's a shell hack.

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas)]

Daniel, you are not right - majority CRT monitors work at 85 Hz in they
recommended mode (see table above) while higher-end monitors work fine at 100Hz.

Monitors vertical refresh depends on maximal horizontal sync, I can provide
simple table for recommended modes:

800x600 @ 85Hz hsync: 53 kHz (low quality 15" monitors and good 14" have
maximum hsync ~54 kHz)
1024x768 @ 85Hz hsync: 68 kHz (good 15" and low quality 17" monitors have
maximum hsync ~70 kHz)
1152x864 @ 85Hz hsync: 77 kHz (most 17" monitors and low quality 19" have
maximum hsync ~85 kHz)
1152x864 @ 100Hz hsync: 89 kHz (high-end 17" monitors and most 19" have maximum
hsync ~95kHz)
1280x1024 @ 85Hz hsync: 91 kHz (most 19" and low quality 21" have maximum hsync
~95kHz)
1280x1024 @ 100Hz hsync: 107 kHz (high-end 19" and most 21" have maximum hsync
~110kHz)
1600x1200 @ 85Hz hsync: 106 kHz (most 21" have maximum hsync ~110kHz)

For example my 17" Hansol 701P monitor is made at 1998 and supports only TCO95,
it has maximal horizontal sync 85kHz and I usually use 1024x768 @ 100Hz and very
rarely 1152x864 @ 85Hz

As you see, it's always safe to choose resolution with 85 Hz vertical refresh
for all monitors, which has maximal hsync >=68 kHz, only low quality 15"
monitors can't work with 1042x768 @ 85Hz and low quality 14" monitors can't do
800x600 @ 85Hz, so we can discuss which mode would be better for monitors, which
horiz sync is less 68 kHz

If there are posibility to know real monitors CRT size, then we can set
resolution with 100 Hz vertical refresh on 17" monitors with maximal hsync >= 89
kHz and 19" monitors with maximal hsync >= 107 kHz

There are lots of hardware and eyes safety sites, which recommend to use 800x600
on 14"-15", 1024x768 on 17" and don't recommend to use vertical refresh lower
than 85 Hz, look for example at http://www.hwupgrade.com/monitor/index4.html

According TCO99 and TCO2003 85Hz is *mandatory* and 100Hz is recommended, so
this bug isn't enhancement, Ubuntu Linux should care about users eyes.

Various monitors hsync data you can see at any monitor manufacturer's sites, for
exampe cheap manufacturer Proview:

http://www.proview.net/static/products/crt_series.html

or at hardware testing sites, for example this old article:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20020805/crt-09.html

Btw, you can find more examples in google ir you don't believe me ;)

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas)]

*** Bug 12839 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas)]

I've searched ubuntu bugzilla and found some bugreports, where people suggest to
use 85Hz:
for example on bug #8817 user, having 17" cheap monitor (hsync is 30-70 kHz),
thinks, that best resolution is 1024x768 @ 85Hz.

[Matt Zimmerman (mdz)]

Please leave the severity of this bug as it is. Ubuntu isn't damaging anyone's
eyes. You are the only person making a fuss about this.

There are much more important issues to deal with.

[Žygimantas Augilius (jeegiz-dtiltas)]

Not everybody knows about Bugzilla, i've seen in newsgroups people complaining
about weird Ubuntu 1280x1024 resolution, which they need to change each time
they boot live CD.

Nobody works with 1280x1024 resolution on 17' CRT monitors. Why then resolution
is not set to 640x480 if user any way will be forced to change resolution to
more common 1024x768?

[Martin Bajer (fict10n)]

Absolutely agree. I have 19" Samsung SyncMaster 959NF and must have
1024x768@100Hz. I can't work 10 hours with 85Hz. IMHO nobody normal use for
GNOME 14" monitor resp. monitor withnout capability at least 800x600@85Hz.

[Martin Bajer (fict10n)]

There definitely should be option for 100Hz in the "Screen Resolution Preferences".
IMO the default resolution should be 1024x768@85Hz (after installation).

note: I got 1920x1440 on my 19" monitor after installation at 75Hz. It can
discourage new users :)

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas)]

Martin Bajer, please report another bug about missing 100 hz refresh rate in the
"Screen Resolution Preferences".
It seems 100hz refresh is missing for 1024x768 and higher modes in x.org
build-in modes :(

[Martin Bajer (fict10n)]

reported bug #: 10130 https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10130
Missing 100 hz refresh rate in the "Screen Resolution Preferences"

[Matt Zimmerman (mdz)]

*** Bug 16429 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Michal Suchanek (hramrach)]

I also think that CRT monitor refresh rates below 85Hz are unusable.

[Daniel Stone (daniels)]

well, welcome to the world of personal preference: a lot of people use 60Hz for
years with no ill effects; I personally use either 70 or 75Hz with CRTs,
usually. if you're that hung up about refresh rates, get an LCD or something.
100Hz is insane, and doesn't even work on a whole ton of chipsets (including
Intels). but limiting stuff to 70Hz or higher is reasonable.

[Martin Bajer (fict10n)]

OK, LCD is good solution (maybe the best) to bypass refresh rate problem,
magnetic fields etc.

60Hz is acceptable only on old/small monitors with low resolution in combination
with absolutely healthy eyes. Anyway 70-75Hz is eye hazard.
There are many respectable studies about refresh rate, eye fatigue, eye strain,
headache on the Internet. High refresh rate is also important in providing a
clear picture. In other hand, 100Hz is must have for lot of people, I see
nothing insane about that :)

[Daniel Stone (daniels)]

A lot of today's hardware can't actually display 100Hz modes (including anything
Intel). I think this is a good reflection on the amount of use 100Hz and 120Hz
modes see.

[rngadam (rngadam)]

I would also have liked to have my monitor setup to 1024x768 @ 85Hz instead of
1280x1024 @ 60Hz. It is the first thing I change since at 60 Hz the flickering
is often perceptible.

A quick search reveals that this is usually recommended by most:

http://www.health24.com/medical/Condition_centres/777-792-810-1692,29508.asp

"Most people use CRT (Cathode Ray Tubes) screens like TV screens. These screens
have a single electron ray that has to light up dot after dot, line after line.
It does this at a certain speed. With TV it is 50 Hz (50 screen scans per
second) and with PC's it's 50 to 60 Hz by default. This 'refreshing' of the
screen is why TV and computer screens flicker. This flicker can cause tremendous
eye strain and headaches in some people."

http://www.newhopepa.com/tekkorner/Anna082202/

"You might find out that your refresh rate is set to 70 Hertz or even lower. If
so, check out if there are higher refresh rates in the drop down menu. Consider
75 Hz or higher. After having increased the refresh rate you may be pleasantly
surprised to find out that the monitor is now easier on your eyes!"

I don't understand the resistance shown here to offering the medically best
resolution to non-technical users by default...

[Daniel Stone (daniels)]

by default on i386 and powerpc, this is done if the monitor is capable.
experience has shown that the refresh rate used is typically 75Hz, maybe 70.
the only architecture where this does not hold true is amd64, where because of
certain limitations which are technically incredibly difficult to overcome, we
have a choice between pleasing the submitters of bugs like these, and making
peoples' monitors explode. personally, I think glass shards all through your
eyes and face is a little more harmful than 60Hz.

[Daniel Stone (daniels)]

*** Bug 23689 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[rngadam (rngadam)]

Dapper Drake Flight CD 2, I get this:

rngadam@ubuntu:~$ sudo ddcprobe
Password:
vbe: VESA 2.0 detected.
oem: ATI R200
memory: 65536kb
mode: 800x600x16
mode: 1024x768x16
mode: 320x200x32k
mode: 320x200x64k
mode: 320x200x16m
mode: 1600x1200x256
mode: 640x400x256
mode: 640x480x256
mode: 640x480x32k
mode: 640x480x64k
mode: 640x480x16m
mode: 1600x1200x32k
mode: 800x600x256
mode: 800x600x32k
mode: 800x600x64k
mode: 800x600x16m
mode: 1600x1200x64k
mode: 1024x768x256
mode: 1024x768x32k
mode: 1024x768x64k
mode: 1024x768x16m
mode: 1280x1024x256
mode: 1280x1024x32k
mode: 1280x1024x64k
mode: 1280x1024x16m
mode: 132x25 (text)
mode: 132x43 (text)
edid:
edid: 1 1
id: 06a7
eisa: HSL06a7
serial: 00000000
manufacture: 24 1999
input: composite sync, sync on green, digital signal.
screensize: 32 24
gamma: 2.250000
dpms: RGB, active off, suspend, standby
timing: 720x400@70 Hz (VGA 640x400, IBM)
timing: 720x400@88 Hz (XGA2)
timing: 640x480@60 Hz (VGA)
timing: 640x480@67 Hz (Mac II, Apple)
timing: 640x480@72 Hz (VESA)
timing: 640x480@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@56 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@60 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 832x624@75 Hz (Mac II)
timing: 1024x768@87 Hz Interlaced (8514A)
timing: 1024x768@60 Hz (VESA)
timing: 1024x768@70 Hz (VESA)
timing: 1024x768@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 1280x1024@75 (VESA)
ctiming: 640x480@85
ctiming: 800x600@85
ctiming: 1024x768@85
ctiming: 1280x1024@60
dtiming: 800x600@85
dtiming: 1024x768@104
dtiming: 1280x1024@70
monitorrange: 30-70, 47-160

However, selected resolution is 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz and there is no other refresh
rate. Would this be normal? Isn't there a "timing: 1280x1024@75 (VESA)"?

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Feisty Herd 5
everything detected and spiffy,
yet the monitor flickers at

(85Hz in in the "Screen Resolution", and no, it does not make the monitor explode, it just works)

(for X log, ddcprobe, xresprobe see bug 27508, comments 16,17 and 18)

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

sorry, I left out the most important detail :
"flickers at" should be "flickers at 60 Hz"

[Carl Englund (englundc)]

1280x1024@60Hz is pure horror to look at. I'm just writing here to support the change to something more sane. Max res @85Hz sounds good to me.

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Feisty beta i386 (20070322.1) live CD still goes for 1280x1024@60Hz by default.

Is there an actual decision to use higher than 60 Hz in one of the next releaes ?

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad (joerlend.schinstad-deactivatedaccount)]

I have something abit more serious to report in this context; today, in #Ubuntu @ DALnet, I was asked why someone couldn't boot Feisty from the live-cd. I asked him to describe his problems, and he told me that as soon as X was about to start, it shut down. He was using a asrock K7VM3 motherboard with an onboard vga connected to a Sunstar monitor (FH 568).
He got thiese errors;

(EE) VESA(0) : No Maching modes
(EE) Screen(s) Found, but none have a usable configuration
Fatal Server error
no Screens found
Press any key to restart your system

I found thiese bugs and asked him to try and boot the system with the monitor disconnected, just for fun. That worked! (..and it _was_ fun for me) So, the assumption that this is just a cosmetic problem and nothing else, is clearly false.

[Timo Aaltonen (tjaalton)]

jo-erlend: bug 89853

[Timo Aaltonen (tjaalton)]

jo-erlend: no, sorry.. Please open a new bug, yours is different.

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad (joerlend.schinstad-deactivatedaccount)]

Are you sure? The bug you referred to, seemed to be the same as the one I found. In any case, it seems to be a very well known bug by now. I don't think there's any need for further bugreports on that. Besides, since the system isn't mine, I'd have difficulties getting any more information and it would be impossible to reproduce.

[Timo Aaltonen (tjaalton)]

that bug is about laptops, so at least I'd like to see the xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log in a new bugreport.. but if you can't provide them that's too bad.

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas)]

It seems X server in Gutsy selects safer (for eyes) default mode than xresprobe - I've tried to start Ubuntu Gutsy without xorg.conf and got safe 75Hz modes on CRT monitors instead of 60 Hz modes, which are set by xresprobe.

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Ubuntu 7.10
still defaults to 60 Hz.

Can we at least have the "metric to aim for is above 70Hz" , please ?

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Oh, I forgot my hw data:
radeon 8500, radeon driver (compiz automatically enabled)
the (working) choices in the "Screen Resolution" applet are (actually this is the xrandr output):

Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1680 x 1200
VGA-0 connected 1024x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right) 310mm x 240mm
   1680x1050 60.0
   1600x1024 60.0
   1400x1050 60.0
   1280x1024 59.9 60.0
   1440x900 60.2
   1280x960 60.0
   1280x800 60.0
   1152x864 75.0
   1280x768 60.0
   1152x768 54.8
   1024x768 84.9* 85.0 75.1 75.0 70.1 60.0
   832x624 74.6
   800x600 84.9 85.1 72.2 75.0 60.3 56.2
   640x480 85.0 84.6 75.0 72.8 75.0 60.0 59.9
   720x400 85.0 70.1
   640x400 85.1
   640x350 85.1
DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right)

[Timo Aaltonen (tjaalton)]

Hi, xresprobe is no longer used in Hardy Heron, the development version which will become Ubuntu 8.04. Because of that I'm closing this bug. Please test Hardy (alpha3 or later), and if your hardware still fails to get a correct resolution (or if it drops to failsafe mode), file a bug against the driver package (xserver-xorg-video-$driver). Thanks!

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Same with alpha 3.
I get 1440x900 at 60 Hz.
This is on my Radeon8500 system.

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

On my other system the alpha 3 live CD comes up in 1280x960 @ 85Hz .
card: radeon9500
monitor: Hyundai 7695 (horiz 30-95kHZ, vert 50-150 Hz)

On the radeon8500 system, the monitor is IIyama S700JT1

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

The full monitor name is Hyundai HT7695B

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

live Ubuntu 8.04 on another system.
Also comes up in 85 Hz (CRT monitor).

Mark bug as fixed ?

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Forget that.
8.04.1 amd64
nvidia card: 60 Hz

[David Balažic (xerces8)]

Ubuntu 9.04

CPU: Athlon2200XP+
gfx: Radeon 8500LE
Monitor: Hyundai HT7695B

Refresh: not 60 Hz (different values used by LiveCD and installed system, both above 60 Hz)
Monitor explosion: none