Dialog shown on clicking "Shutdown" is different to the dialog shown when pressing the physical power button

Reported by Redmar on 2011-12-20
18
This bug affects 3 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Ayatana Design
Undecided
Unassigned
Session Menu
Undecided
Unassigned
indicator-session (Ubuntu)
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

Could the 'shutdown' option trigger the same menu you get when pressing the on/off button? This would safe space in the indicator menu, since Suspend can be removed, and would be nicer to look at. Especially for non-English languages

There are several reasons for this:
1) First: it is more consistent to use just one menu

2) When you click on shutdown you get a menu where you can choose reboot, shutdown or cancel. However, the width is determined by the length of the text "Are you sure you want to close all programs and shut down the computer?". When translated to another language, this text can be even longer (English is a short language). The effect is basically an ugly window when you want to shut down, while there is a perfectly fine window you get when you press the on/off button. So why not use that one?

Thanks!

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 12.04
Package: indicator-session 0.3.7.1-1
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 3.2.0-5.11-generic 3.2.0-rc5
Uname: Linux 3.2.0-5-generic x86_64
ApportVersion: 1.90-0ubuntu1
Architecture: amd64
Date: Tue Dec 20 19:11:30 2011
EcryptfsInUse: Yes
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 12.04 LTS "Precise Pangolin" - Alpha amd64 (20111129.1)
ProcEnviron:
 PATH=(custom, no user)
 LANG=nl_NL.UTF-8
 SHELL=/bin/bash
SourcePackage: indicator-session
UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to precise on 2011-12-14 (5 days ago)

Redmar (redmar) wrote :
Bilal Akhtar (bilalakhtar) wrote :

That would hurt discoverability. Moreover, this has been discussed many a times a few years ago, when we moved from a button (8.04) to the current menu (8.10). The current approach is much better and discoverable.

As for translations, I guess its the job of the translator to add line breaks wherever needed.

Changed in indicator-session (Ubuntu):
status: New → Opinion
Redmar (redmar) wrote :

A similar bug was reported for oneiric, and there the response was that the size of the gear-menu was key, which was why the 'restart' option could not appear there. When discovery is key, it would be better if the 'restart' option was moved to the main gear-menu. This would also be more consistent, since the options for logoff, restart, suspend and hibernate are already in that menu
This would just add a single line, which means the 'gear' menu will still be much smaller than the messages, date, or network menu.

I know this is a minor thing, but its an LTS and it would be great if ubuntu looks as nice as possible.

Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) wrote :

(Please don't use "Opinion" for non-Unity bug reports. Thanks.)

I don't understand this bug report. The on/off button does not currently open a menu, so I don't see how the "Shut Down" menu item could "trigger the same menu". Perhaps you could draw a sketch or mockup to show what you mean?

Changed in indicator-session (Ubuntu):
status: Opinion → Incomplete
Conscious User (conscioususer) wrote :

@Matthew:

For whatever reason, Redmar is using the word "menu" for both dialogs and actual menus.

My attachments should clarify what he's talking about.

@Redmar:

There is a difference between "X is important" and "X should be prioritized above everything". Your proposals either put the menu size above everything or put discoverability above everything. Neither of those is necessarily the best approach.

The rationale behind the current design is that "restart" can be interpreted as a particular case of "shutdown", while "suspend"and "hibernate" can not. It's an attempt to find a balance.

I'm not saying that the current design is necessarily ideal. But you should present other arguments because the ones you presented so far are based on the false premise that "importance = priority above everything".

Furthermore, I disagree with your opinion on what "looks nicer". In my opinion, the power button dialog looks cluttered and confusing with so many buttons.

Finally, the issue about the dialog being too wide is actually a GTK3 issue. Dialogs in GTK3 tolerate a larger length than GTK2 before automatically adding linebreaks. I'm not sure why this is so, but either way it's a toolkit issue and not one that should be worked around only for this specific dialog.

Conscious User (conscioususer) wrote :

All that said, I AGREE with the basic premise of this bug: the dialog should be the same in both cases.

I just disagree with which one should be chosen.

Redmar (redmar) wrote :

@Conscious User
Thanks for adding those screenshots, I should probably have done that myself.

"I'm not saying that the current design is necessarily ideal. But you should present other arguments because the ones you presented so far are based on the false premise that "importance = priority above everything"."

My argument is basically the following: by moving "restart" into the dialog we make the gear menu a little bit smaller, which is good. At the same time, discoverability takes a hit, since "restart" is now less visible. We also lose some consistency, since only one option ("restart") is located in the dialogue. I believe this is a bad trade off, since the gear menu is already much smaller than the other menu's. I also noticed that previous versions of ubuntu (at least natty for sure) also have "restart" in the menu itself, not in a dialogue. If "restart" is added to the menu people updating LTS -> LTS won't notice any change.

"The rationale behind the current design is that "restart" can be interpreted as a particular case of "shutdown", while "suspend"and "hibernate" can not. It's an attempt to find a balance."

It's true that "restart" can be seen as a special case of "shutdown". However, from a users point of view, all options ("suspend", "hybernate", etc) are things you do when you stop using your computer, so it could be argued all fall in a similar category. If that is the case, all options should be displayed in the same way (i.e. dialogue or the menu itself).

If the dialogue width is caused by GTK3 that's fine, I'm sure there's a reason for that.

Offtopic: This is a bit of a tricky bug-report since a lot of it is based on personal preferences, thanks for taking time to talk about it!

Greg A (etulfetulf) wrote :

Just wanted to attach this screenshot that shows (in English) the three main elements being discussed here.

summary: - could we have another shutdown menu?
+ Dialog shown on clicking "Shutdown" is different to the dialog shown
+ when pressing the physical power button
Olli Ries (ories) on 2012-03-27
Changed in indicator-session:
status: New → Incomplete
Sn0w17 (sn0w17) on 2012-04-12
Changed in hundredpapercuts:
importance: Undecided → Low
status: New → Incomplete
John Lea (johnlea) wrote :

Marking as opinion because this request conflicts with the design we are implementing in 12.10 ( see https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ILTJDiDCd25Npt2AmgzF8aOnZZECxTfM0hvsbWT2BxA/edit for full details )

Changed in ayatana-design:
status: New → Opinion
Changed in hundredpapercuts:
status: Incomplete → Opinion
Changed in indicator-session (Ubuntu):
status: Incomplete → Opinion
Changed in indicator-session:
status: Incomplete → Opinion
Greg A (etulfetulf) wrote :

I'd just like to point out that this request does not actually conflict with the design described in that document - the document suggests implementing the same dialog for both "Pressing the power button" and for "selecting the shutdown or restart option in the device indicator".

I'm delighted to see that being proposed.

Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) wrote :

I'm reopening this since (as Greg says above) this is still a valid bug that doesn't conflict with the 12.10 design but it is one bug that will be fixed as part of the 12.10 design.

Changed in indicator-session (Ubuntu):
status: Opinion → Triaged
Changed in indicator-session:
status: Opinion → Confirmed
Charles Kerr (charlesk) wrote :

I had some code similar to this already, so I've created lp:~charlesk/indicator-session/lp-907015 which delegates the shutdown / logout / restart prompt to gnome-session-quit if possible, and falls back to our own dialogs if gnome-session-quit is unavailable.

However I'm not sure that we want this patch to go through. IMO bug #958709 supercedes this issue.

Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) wrote :

Redmar, thanks for this suggestion. It would be great if we could simplify the system menu; it's kind of daft that it includes five different ways of stopping using Ubuntu.

However, just pushing them into a single dialog is not a good way of solving the problem. I don't think there is any elegant wording with which we could make it obvious that a single item lets you choose either Suspend or Shut Down, as long as it's important to know the difference.

Conversely, if you press the hardware power button you might reasonably want to Suspend, Restart, or Shut Down, so those functions do need to be in a single dialog that appears in that case.

Fixing the width of the shutdown dialog will be handled as part of the typography project.

Changed in indicator-session:
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
Changed in indicator-session (Ubuntu):
status: Triaged → Won't Fix
no longer affects: hundredpapercuts
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